45. Darren Laverty Learns To Teach Essential Money Lessons

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This week I speak to Darren Laverty, a financial well-being strategist at Secondsight.

Growing up, Darren learnt from his dad’s example that to have money, you had to work hard for it.

Dabbling in all sorts of jobs, from car sales to nightclubs, Darren found none of these career paths were for him. Finally, a passing idea to pursue a path in life insurance took his fancy. It turned out to be a good fit.

A self-confessed “over optimistic attitude” saw Darren plunge into a high-spending lifestyle. Materialism took over his life. Having hitting rock bottom with insurmountable overdrafts and debts, he realised it was time for a change.

Together with his wife, Darren was gradually able to achieve his desire to become debt-free and take back control of his money.

Now, in his role as a financial well-being strategist at Secondsight, he teaches people how to start the seemingly enormous task of becoming financially free. The relationship between financial well-being and emotional well-being is one which Darren wants to everyone to fully realise.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler: Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. Real Money Stories is the only UK podcast which shares personal money stories of everyday people. So their insights can help you to be better with money.

My name is Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money, journey, or world on the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more.

Jason Butler 0:03
Hello, and thanks for joining me on another episode of Real Money Stories. This is the podcast where we speak to people from all sorts of backgrounds, about their money experiences, their perspectives and their journey. I'm your host, Jason Butler. And this week, I'm joined by a real interesting character, a really, really interesting guy, who I would say is a sort of kindred spirit in the financial well being workplace space. And he is none other than Mr. Darren Laverty.

Darren Laverty 0:30
Hi there. How you doing?

Jason Butler 0:32
Yeah, good. Thanks for being on the show. Now you're very very busy chap. I know before we get into your backstory, you want to just tell everyone what you do or what you what you pretend to do for your for your day job.

Darren Laverty 0:44
I call myself a financial well being strategist. And I do that on purpose because there's a lot of people out there that are calling themselves financial well being specialists. But if you look at their background, you know you can go on LinkedIn, you He's sort of see that maybe a year ago they were working in a shop or or a secretary or anything, you know. So I find it sort of everyone's jumped on the bandwagon. And I think it's about strategy. And so I don't think that any company out there who's got the monopoly on the on the answers to this, but I think what employers need to do is to have a strategy which is designed specifically to suit their community, their their people. And so what I do is I've kind of got a broad knowledge now of financial well being what it means what's out there who does what, and I can help employers put together their strategy which should be dictated by the needs and wants of their employees, by their employee benefits package. And then also, with the it also depends on on what budget they'd got, what their priorities are. So I kind of helped them find the optimum way through to get the biggest impact in the shortest possible time.

Jason Butler 1:50
And we expected conferences together and I can tell you Darren's a great speaker, great stories, but he's he's very practical. So I was really keen to get him on the show and a wealth of experience. So Darrin, take us back to your sort of early money memories because I'm always fascinated to hear how people kind of start their relationship with money.

Darren Laverty 2:10
We weren't poor when I was growing up, but we weren't rich. So I don't think I ever felt like I was going without, no way. But at the same token, there was quite a few people that had things I didn't have. So I was kinda I think, you know, come for very working class background. My dad was 116 children came over from Ireland. He, he's, he's not that good at reading and writing. So when my when he decided what career path he wanted to go on, he used to have to learn on the job and then come home and then get my mom to read the books to him. And he ended up becoming a mechanic which, which is what I did to begin with. He was real hard work. He played hard. He worked hard, and that's kind of what he instilled in me, but never ever, ever saved any money. Never you know, and, and so I never it wasn't even on my radar then that will be a good idea that my dad lived for the day. And he lived for the moment he lived, he was very, very present. He never thought about the future never worried about the past. It made him very happy from that degree, you know, but you know, he's he's now even though he ended up being a severe alcoholic, just a boozer. He's still alive. He's 18 years of age next month, and I think he's still alive, because he never worried about anything. So however, I don't think that's the right strategy. And parents can be a warning or an example, you know, and there's a lot of good things I've learned from dad. But, you know, same token, there's a lot of things, a lot of warnings I've learned from him as well. And so my, my attitude towards saving only came much, much later on when I got a job persuading people to save and I was about 22.

Jason Butler 3:46
But as we all know, the the childhood your your family or formative years can be very, very important about how you relate to money and how you respond to rewards and status and stuff like that. So were you a big family. What was the sort of you said you weren't rich and you weren't poor and your debt was living for the moment, but But what was the kind of day to day conversations about money and working and stuff like that? When you were young.

Darren Laverty 4:10
My dad always said, Nothing will ever be him. And he never worries about anything. We never really spoke about money to any degree whatsoever. My dad used to and I copied him, he could work his way up problems. So if he if he needed money, he'd go and get a bit more. There's money out there. It just meant he worked a bit harder. And he used to work all the hours and work very, very hard. For sure. So we had the we had the family holidays, we didn't go abroad, but we had family holidays. We will have nice new bikes and with nice Christmases, somebody was there. He drank a lot, and a lot of money went down his throat, to be fair. And that was his that was his illness he his challenge he had to live with. But we never as a family sat around the table and talked about money at all. That was never other than we need a bit more Money, I'll go and get it.

Jason Butler 5:01
So there wasn't a scarcity mindset as some people have, you know, like, my mom had a real scarcity mindset, you know, doesn't grow on trees, you know, she was very, very feast or famine, but it sounds like your dad was always feasting. Right? And so therefore you you did you did you sort of thing Okay, well that's there's always money out there did you build that abundance mindset?

Darren Laverty 5:19
For sure. In fact, bottom of 17 I hated school so much I left school when I was 15 because I was, I was late in the year so I do my own levels before I was 16. I left school straight away, but I was 17 I had three jobs.

Jason Butler 5:34
That was when I wanted to get out and work and so I did. I did three jobs. Okay, so that was following you dad's kind of if you need stuff now, you gotta get it right. Yeah, absolutely. You do three jobs and tell us about that. What was that?

Darren Laverty 5:48
I was doing apprenticeship as a car mechanic who, what it's called a maintenance fitter, but it was cars involved in cars when my passion. I thought because I thought that if I lost Cars And wouldn't it be great to work on them for a living, I soon realized that was rubbish. It was the driving of them that I really liked, which is why I went into motorsport later on in life. And on the other job I did was I fixed cars privately weekend every weekend and I re sprayed them and I put new engines in and clutches and cash on the side. And I also worked a nightclub two or three nights a week. Thursday, Friday Saturday.

Jason Butler 6:25
What was the night club? What was that all about? Was that like a free free social life or was it just to earn money?

Darren Laverty 6:30
No money, it was money I could make quite a lot of money I'll get I'm gonna get paid 15 pound a shift on started. Eight o'clock in the evening. The cupboard open at nine you've shut up too. I'd work three to three in the home. But tips are great. So you know I could make I could make more money in two nights at the nightclub than I would from the two other jobs. Just tips. I was friendly character. made lots of friends up there and and so basically I you know I was getting a pound or 50 p for every round. I was pouring And that was great money. So what did you

Jason Butler 7:01
learn about yourself in those early formative years when you were juggling all those jobs?

Darren Laverty 7:06
I think I learned was that I could put not put myself to anything. I think that I learned at that time, what I didn't want to be a honest, and I really started to crave. I really liked working people and knew that fixing cars was not for me. And that was to my jobs. One was an apprenticeship. One was actually my private work. And so I realized then I need to work with people. And so I as time went on what I looked at my boss in the engineering background side of things, I looked at his income and his lifestyle was a lovely fella. That's not the life I wanted, and I thought, why am I going down this road and so I changed it. To 21 I decided I need to go into sales. And so I wanted to own it to own and have no legal income. I didn't want somebody else to be worth I wanted to be paid what I was worth, so 21 I effectively went self employed, but I I got a job selling as a sales engineer for a year that didn't really work either that was too restrictive and a bit but dull and boring. And then I eventually entered the world of financial services, believe it or not, when I was 22. And that way, I knew that whilst there was no floor, and I had no guaranteed income, I had no ceiling either. And that really excited me. So that's why why I went for that and I am a risk taker. And so therefore I I jumped in ignorantly. And I did suffer to begin with, and some big lessons there. But I take that risk, a lot of people won't.

Jason Butler 8:36
That's interesting. You said, I decided I had to go into sales. And you looked around you at your boss or whatever it was, and you thought that's not life for me, but that's quite, that's quite an A. It's quite an interesting perspective for such a young person, particularly, you know, young guy back then. I mean, how did you were you very self aware or did you just send me read? Was there someone you met was that what was the catalyst for that?

Darren Laverty 8:59
No. I have quite materialistic then from honest, I think we've resolved when we, you know, early 20s. And I used to drive around with my, my wife. I mean, I'd been with her since I was 18. And at that time, we would drive around the area where I live now actually looking at houses and dreaming, you know, and knowing that the only way I'm ever going to have a home like that a life like that, you know, was to go and do something for myself when I need to do something, but I can generate a lot of income. And I chose financial services. And that was the wrong career for me as well Believe it or not. They wouldn't for the money. I know what the catalyst was one of my dad's friends now that being an Irishman, had loads of Irish friends, one of his friends got a job at an insurance company and basically he was out selling insurance policies and savings plans to people and he was making a lot more money than I was. And this guy was not particularly bright and not very well turned out, you know, a bit rough around the edges. He was making good money and he He's making several thousand pounds in a month. But I was like, trying to make 1000 pound a month. And so the catalyst for me was, well, if he could do it, I can do it. That was it. I just saw him doing it. And now what he had that I didn't have at the time is he had to, he had to kind of gift of the gab and sometimes I have but I mean, he was a real charming Irishman. And he could prospect people in the pub every night. And that's what he did. He just pick up two or three leads every night. I can't be in the pub and just slowly luring them in. And then so I'll give you a call tomorrow or something and then wait a few days by that point. They're dying for it, you know, the type of phone call.

Jason Butler 10:35
But I see the analogy I think with that is whenever I've done triathlons and stuff, and I'm not saying it to brag, I'm just saying that bloody hard when I've done them and there's the big pack at the front and I thought well, I'm not going to be at the front of the pack, but I'm going to use them as I pull me forward because I think I can do better by looking at the people ahead. So that's what you did you look at role model. That's good. So why did you say it was the wrong job for you then if you thought Hang on, this is the way to earn lots of money. Which you thought was important?

Darren Laverty 11:02
Well, I had no qualifications. You know, I sort of had to exaggerate a little bit. I had an economics, oh level, that sort of exaggerate that we bit to get in. There was not a lot of checking during those days. And I hate to admit that, but what I was learning economics at school, I learned all the mechanics of banking, you know, learn about investments and learn about all the way that money flows around the world. But no one taught me the most important aspects of it. And no, that's gone. And this is something I think schools absolutely got to do. They've got to teach people about what good behavior good habits are. If we need to find out why people want to save money and invest money and preserve and plan and budget. And the key thing is, we all know that it's a logical thing to do, but we've got to want to do it. And that's the bit that's missing. I think in schools, we shouldn't be teaching about how our check gets cleared. That's what we're learning. I think we should be learning about why it's important to save and what would happen if we did in what manner If we did and look at the two outcomes and choose which one you want, you know, it's that, that catching people really early. So what am i great examples, it's I've mentioned this guy in my book, which is about financial education. And his name's Stuart, and he was 19. So if I was doing this, I got this job I was 2223 and a half, the first thing you do is you put all your friends in, and that and then you get referrals. And I'm sure you've been through this back in those back in those 80s. And one of my one of my friends recommended me to his brother, his brother recommended me to one of his friends and this friend called Stewart 19. And he's not an ideal client, but in those days, you could get paid to persuade people to save. Now, whilst the products were not good, the habits he created, were brilliant. And I think the whole piece missing, I think the baby was thrown out with the bathwater when they kind of outlawed them. Because the policies weren't fantastic. This guy after 10 years, it's policy. I gave him a check and it actually generated less money than he paid. Because of the charges and all the horrible features the policy, and I said, I'm really sorry, Stuart, that this is not quite what you've paid in, it's not actually grown effectively. And he said, there are other kemmy. This is, in the last 10 years, you've gotten into a habit from age 19. I've never broken. And what he did is he increased his savings. He also bought a property by by time in his early 20s. He was now about to buy a second property here, he started to fund his pension. Now, the guy never earned a lot of money, the guy actually spent most of his life working as a warehouseman. Now, obviously, you know, in management eventually, but that was his role. He was a very, very basic role. Nothing, nothing, never and lots of money. He always saved money. And the lesson we got from him is that when he was 49, with no 47 or 47, which is just a few years ago, he was financially independent. Now he doesn't work now. He chose not to work. He doesn't have to work. He's assets that he's saved, you know, you save 20% income is life, those assets that he's built up over time now generate enough income, we've never have to look, he's got those. He's got that freedom at that age, just we're having a good habit from age 19. And that's one of my favorite success stories that I, you know, where I've made a difference for someone specifically, you know, and that he didn't need to be a big earner to do that.

Jason Butler 14:18
So so you're in financial services, there is unlimited potential income, but you said it was a bit difficult to start with so. So did you have sort of was it tough to earn money as a self employed you had all the freedom to earn nothing, basically, but it sounds to me like

Darren Laverty 14:34
you self employed you also if you want to be yourself, unemployed, if you want it to be the scary bit was approaching people, and that's where most people failed. So you have to get on the phone. Or you have to go and organize an event where you network and meet people and prospect them and let's put yourself under pressure. I used to go to every party I could go to and try and prospect people and realize Actually, I've got to have to I can't combine these two things. go to parties have fun with people, though. Don't stop trying to sell to them do that as a different game. And so I've never I learned quite quickly that was that was a waste of a really bad party. But what I did do is I set up all sorts of different things where I could meet people, so I'll get involved in all sorts of networking or I would I talk with a charity work and I put up a bouncy castle, a big fairing in Sao and, and it was for leukemia research and I've got a big banner up saying free bouncy castle for kids and all donations into the park gratefully received in ative leukemia research. And so what happened was, is that the kids flocked to it. The parents did not have to pay, but they chose to put a few pounds in the pot, but they stood there waiting for their children. And the boys would walk around check them all up so that so that's how we got

Jason Butler 15:48
bouncy castle was the foundation of your future success. I love it. I love it.

Darren Laverty 15:54
in a conversation with people. That was what it was about.

Jason Butler 15:57
Yeah. So how were you at that stage? What was your person because you You got married quite young. Didn't you?

Darren Laverty 16:02
Married at 28 so not that young.

Jason Butler 16:05
with her for a long time. Yeah. So what was your situation like in the So you started doing some money? What did you do? How were you with your money? Were you spending it in?

Darren Laverty 16:16
Yeah, I spent a lot. So any money. What I did is I, I knew I could earn a lot. I always had this kind of over optimistic most of the time. So I always felt whatever happened I could work my way out of it strange that I picked up these values from a dad, you know, and I'll just sell more. But in fact, you know, throughout the 20s I was working 12 hours a day, six days a week. You know, if I wasn't in the office, I mean, basically spend all day prospecting and marketing all night talking to people and selling and then Saturday, I'd be stood outside a supermarket, and I've paid to stand there and prospect people coming in or stand outside being queue, chatting people up, you are committed. very driven, really wanting to grow the client bank and that's amazing people, you know, you cannot judge any One of the people, I walked into being tonight, and I prospect, a few good lines to get their attention. And this guy is a scrap dealer, and he could hardly read or write. And I still know to this day, they trusted me and invested loads of money with me over time. And the guy, I mean, he's got several properties around the place. He's He's financially independent, not because of me, but I was his financial advisor at the time. But you know, this guy looked like scrap dealer and you can just never judge a book and he's a really, really decent, decent, friendly, lovely family guy made a fortune out of non ferrous metals by going to go to dumps and collecting them and you've just had contract for me brilliant. So you meet all sorts and everyone goes to b&q.

Jason Butler 17:48
So didn't make some fantastic people during that period. You made the interesting point that sometimes people depending where they come from, they confuse conspicuous consumption and lavish cars on finance and all this with wealth. Success, when actually most of the people I've met who really got a handle on their life. I'm not saying you can't have nice things, but they don't tend to live very flashy lifestyles. They don't tend to have the newest car, they don't tend to go on 1900 days and have the latest fashion stuff on do they, they, they, it's not to say that's wrong. It's just that really rich people tend to be quite understated.

Darren Laverty 18:22
For sure, I think, I think what you have is no certainly at this phase is called being an emulator. So you always want to be something, you know, you're always looking to, you know, create an image. So you know what I was when I was 25. I had the Rolex on, I haven't got any Watch now. I had the jag, I had an Xj s you know, the su 25 or the Next Gen Z 12. I had a, you know, a bespoke suits made, you know, and I, you know, I justified it to myself, I said, right, you know why? It's worth more if you said I need because I'm young and I'm in finance, I need to look the part Professional, I justified it. That was all rubbish. The reason I had an Xj is because it made me feel good. Well, I mean, it

Jason Butler 19:09
it was extrinsic motivation. Yeah.

Darren Laverty 19:12
BS. It's not that at all. But you know

Jason Butler 19:16
I mean, how did you mature of your relationship with money? Oh, did he? Or did it change? or How did it change?

Darren Laverty 19:21
Why you just grow out of it, I realized that you know that and some friends are gonna leave it cold on me for a while because I was just in your face. I was sort of trying, you know, trying to be something I wasn't I was denied cars and all the material rubbish, but never any money, you know, come to a point actually. Time about 26 by 26. My wife decided that she needs to take control of the finances because my income was never consistent. I always used a bit of this optimistic thing where I want a big paycheck one month and then I lived to that every month but sometimes I have no paycheck or very small paycheck. And it's called the commission only world Have some services in those days, and got to the point where when money got paid in the bank, and I still couldn't draw any out, it didn't even clear the overdraft. That's pretty stressful place to go. You go to the cash machine, first day of after payday and you can't get any money out. And you then

Jason Butler 20:16
How did you feel? was that stressful?

Darren Laverty 20:18
holy and utterly horrible stress. And this was a, again, a really major moment for me, okay, you sometimes you've got to hit rock bottom, something's got to go through the pain to never want to go there again. You're not to me. And so my wife said, right? And she took again, which is I'm going to come work with you. I'm gonna give up my job. I'm going to control you. I'm going to not control but I'm going to support you in every way I can. And what she did is she took over the finances what we did, we had to open up a different bank account so that my next paycheck could go into the other bank not get absorbed by the overdraft. And so what we did is we left the overdraft where it was we ignored the letters. It was horrible. I mean, the actual the actual bank charges were more than I was paying my accountant. He pointed out Several times. And so what we did is we she slowly started to budget us and this is where I'm so into budgeting because you got to know what's going on. And what so what she did she set up a budget she goes a limit of spending each month. And she had and she started to save money to pay off the overdraft. And remember it took about a year to be honest to work through it, but soon as we had to plan my stress when because a plan we believed in it, but we put the stress into the plan. So we were in the bottom financially, but we now had a plan we worked out together we could see like the end of the tunnel, we know in 12 months, we'll be out the other end, we're just gonna have to get on with it. And suddenly my work became much easier. My I wasn't so desperate in front of a client and and that was definitely coming through. I was trying too hard, you know, overdoing it. And so when the plan was there, to get out of this problem, I think got the cash. Once we had enough cash to pay the overdraft off I walked across the road from one bank to the other with the cash and I paid into the account The exact amount to clear the account then I'd like to close it down. Anyway, three days later, I got a letter in the post from that bank saying, we haven't closed your account because it's still overdrawn. And I run them up as we're talking about and they said, Oh, no, because in that sort of the time from the top from the statement date to when you paid it off, there were interest applied, and it was only a few pounds. I just wanted read of the account. And he's like about two or three pounds or something wouldn't close it. And also infuriated. I actually took their letter and I got black marker pen and I drew around a V sign and my fingers and I posted it back to them and never heard any more because labor but that is that year was probably the most important year ever.

Jason Butler 22:43
Yeah, pivotal. And here's this three things I'm picking up from that is that one that you faced up to the situation to you, you spoke to each other and you you you were working as a team, you and your wife, it wasn't just you or it wasn't just her. And thirdly, you had a plan of action and you know Put the plan in place. So if anyone's out there with feeling a bit overwhelmed or a bit low, there is always light at the end of the tunnel and Darren's example. There's just such a fantastic, true life story of how you do it, and how you you just got to put one foot in front of the other and know you're gonna get out of it. Right.

Darren Laverty 23:16
Some people are so stressed out, it's hard to think, you know, sometimes you need third party help and I think nowadays, there's a bit more of that around there wasn't so much in those days I was aware of. Most employers provide an employee assistance program that people can talk to get some counseling, and but we need to change our mind and our state of mind to get into a plan. And and and one of the ways to do that is to focus on what we want. And it's hard we need to get in the present we need to if we think if we are we only worry about things that might happen or things have happened when he's getting present. And and one of the ways to do that is to be starting to look at what we're grateful for. So okay, I've got some bad stuff here. But what am i grateful for right now and also also grateful for my opportunity also grateful for my bio have also grateful for the people around me. And suddenly, you start to get grounded. And then you say write one. And all I wanted was to be debt free. All I wanted was to come out the other end and not have to worry about money and that and then put a plan together. But then it was about taking control. If you're out of control, you feel stressed. And I wanted to be in control. And I talk about this all the time. Now, you know, in my everyday work, if we can help employees feel in control of most things, financial, we start to reduce their stress. And then we need to work on it. Because things happen, things change. So it's not something you do want to something you have to work on all the time. That is when we feel out of control. That's where the stress comes from. So I suddenly had a control. I had a plan I believed in I could do it. It was a supportive wife to help me with the whole administration of the whole thing. And then we started to follow the plan. And the more you know, two, three months in it was actually got easier because I could see my goal getting closer the more closer you get to it, the more motivated you are. So is that early stage that I found is the heartbeat. And this is what I focus a lot on. Now I want to get people into budget planning. And then they are so stressed that they can't do it. We've got to try and just force ourselves to do it. Get to the emotional moment where we see our finances know what's going on. And then we make the good decisions. And that's that's what I learned. That was a big year for me.

Jason Butler 25:19
So that's how did you feel at the end of it when you'd you'd paid that overdraft? I forget the three quid that you put the V sign on, but that that you paid it off there. How did you and your wife feel then and what did you do next? week.

Darren Laverty 25:33
We celebrated. I gave it the day off, which was quite rare. We went to the pictures. Since I paid that off, we took the day off. It was like and it's quite weird. Again, something else I realized that you know, you need to rest. You need to have proper quality time off to do the best job you can on anything. There's that there's that great story about the two wood shoppers, you know, chopping wood in a competition and one kept stopping every five minutes for one minute. Having a break, but he won the competition and never say, Well, how come you're shopping less? And he said, Well, I'm shopping max. And that's kind of what I learned again, the next thing was me to take time out. And so we went to the pictures and for me to not do 12 hour day, and to have an afternoon off like that. I felt guilty for a while, but actually, that's what we did. And then I felt liberated. But also, interestingly, my income went up and up and up after that, I mean, it went up. I mean, it probably doubled two or three times the next few years. It really did, because I was in a good place. And I didn't. I'm just finding someone to say that I'm in debt that felt wrong.

Jason Butler 26:40
So there's two things that I'm picking up there. One was, you celebrated the success no matter how small or big it was even just getting zero, you have no money, but you didn't owe any money that you celebrated immediately. That's very important. And secondly,

Darren Laverty 26:53
Robin Hood, we went to see.

Jason Butler 26:56
thing the second point, which is really, really important from that story is In your day job you felt it was your you were incongruent with your identity, your sense of identity felt like a fraud because you didn't feel you could be the best version of you carrying this debt. So that's really important. You cannot do things that are against who you think you are you want to be. So that's great. So okay, the income kept doubling. So did you start building wealth? Did you buy property? Did you start businesses What happened then?

Darren Laverty 27:22
Well, I had a bit of bad luck because I bought a bought a property and then we and this is the time when interest rates were at 15 and a half percent, you know, 19. Remember crazy times. And then I hadn't, I didn't have any cash at that time. Obviously, I was back to zero, which was a good place to be for me. I'd already got a mortgage on the property, but I got 100% mortgage, and then the markets dropped to win against me and I was trapped or stuck in unless I found a big pile of cash to get the deposit for the next house and also to pay off the first house. I'll start I was stuck there much longer than I wanted to be. It was a little masonary It's horrible. So eventually, I what I did is, I can't get rid of this place, I can't find a deposit and also pay the cell the other place. So I had to rent that out. And then I bought another house to get a deposit together for the next house. And then and then and then so on and so forth. Eventually, I sold the flat. Once it came back, I didn't enjoy the renting thing. I didn't realize I'm never going to be a property investor, that type of thing. It just didn't suit me, you got to be pretty organized. You know, you're getting the things out of control the government keep changing the rules around taxation on it, and whatever interest rates can fluctuate. It's a business renting these days, and I didn't have the right mindset for that. So I I had some bad tenants and it's paint, it's just a stress. They didn't see my character so soon as i could sell it, I sold it and got out of it.

Jason Butler 28:49
So you bought the next family home and then you had some kids, right? You had some children and did that

Darren Laverty 28:56
33 I started having kids.

Jason Butler 28:58
Okay, so, so Did you did did you become a really heavy saver or was it because you're earning all this money? Or were you still consuming a lot? or How did you how did you factor between today and tomorrow

Darren Laverty 29:10
so what happened was quite quickly so once we bought the second property so I'd say more regularly then what I did is I learned you need to say first and second. And so put the money away have it the day get paid put it put it somewhere where it goes out invest is less relevant right now. So habits of doing it which is what most important so what we did is we simply got into that property. We got sold soon as we sold the second first property after moving to the second property. We started to save money and and what we then did, we saved up enough money to buy a bigger house really there for six, seven years. But we only have children we wanted a bit a better house for the children. So I had a first baby and then we move very quickly. That's 20 years ago so house we've got now which is much you know it's a pretty nice house, to be honest. Which we bought another time, I felt like even NFL a bit young to be in this Grand Place. But, you know, haven't quite finished paid it off, but we're not million miles away. And for that, but what I realized then is also then children start to bring come into focus, it changes you as a person, materialistic things go out the window. I mean, I still have, you know, I still like cars, that's my passion. So for me, you know, children are the number one thing that's what it's all about. And I wanted to do best for them. So I then my purpose was set for saving was my children's education and what I managed to do, and they're both 19 and 17. Now, but I'm so pleased, I managed to properly educate them all the way through. And I had to do that part from income partly from starting to save before that cost came on board. So probably six or seven years before I needed to start spending on school fees. I've started to save for that.

Jason Butler 30:53
So there was a motivation and a clear plan and it was in tune with your values what was important to you what it was, and it's when you've

Darren Laverty 30:59
got a big enough Why'd you know? So I had to get out. Going back, I had a big enough Why don't want to go, I didn't want to stay in this horrible stressy debt situation. Kids come along, they give you the why, you know, that's my reason. And everything runs around that. And so giving them the best start in life was brilliant. I had a terrible, terrible school life. Hated at state school Grammar School. Fair enough very bright people, not my style, couldn't wait to get out hate every minute of it apart from the friendships I had. But my kids are wanting choice and I want them to have and I thought I've gone from a father who you know, could hardly read or write. So I've got to hear, it's my responsibility to take the kids to the next level. And I think there's a lot of downward mobility for youngsters. Now. I'd like to see my kids at least kind of match all orcs to be upwardly mobile from where they currently are. Again, whatever makes them happy doesn't really matter.

Jason Butler 31:48
Now I'm interested to just explore with you because now we talked about your children and I kind of understand you have a very similar kind of home life I think and situation to me and a career. I've had those same things are separate, right? I'm 5152. So there's a lots of things I'm nodding with, because I understand about the negative equity in that. And then the children do change your life. But I'm really interested to explore how you how you have gone about trying to teach your children to value money to respect money and to see in proportion, and also to be their own people when they grow up in in slightly more comfortable times. That's not cool. It's a wealthy or it's it's just a much more comfortable than we had. Because sometimes adversity growing up can be the catalyst for doing good things. Also, get back so I'm just interested to explore if we can in the time we've got left just that kind of how you've approached that because that's a big problem for lots of people.

Darren Laverty 32:41
I think it's a big problem for kids who my children, especially my son, he went to a school where he was probably the poorest kid there, let's say, you know, I mean, he's got friends of our billionaires, you know, and some totally wealthy people who put their kids into this school and it was Yeah, that was lovely. The kids are all lovely. And to be honest with you, I felt that I found that these super rich parents were lovely too. And a lot of people, you know, think oh stinking rich, they're all horrible. They're not, you know, these people are so rich, they can focus on the other things in life. They're not worried about money or trying to impress anyone.

Jason Butler 33:16
That's an inadequacy of people often feel comes from a money script, which has been embedded from upbringing isn't always

Darren Laverty 33:22
I found them to be and I'm still friends with lots of them. I like them to be delightful. And I think it's because they weren't obsessed with trying to impress them but incessant trying to make money. They made it. Most of them were self made as well. And I think that is different to people that are born into it. They have the skills and they've grown into that someone's a millionaire. Mind I think these people have grown there over time. So most of them were self made and famous. But, but once your kids have that they've mixed in private school education kind of thing it's very privileged for that means you get good grades, all the rest of it. We could pick a really good school but You know, they've lived in a world of abundance, they've had the most amazing holidays. And I've made I've wanted to give them a great, great family experience. One, you know, I'm full of memories, you know, I could have, I could have many more millions in the bank right now, if I saved much more, I spent quite a bit but I have saved but I for me, it is also about experiencing life and the kids had a great time, but also they have to learn for themselves. And they absolutely have because I've been quite strict on them earning their own keep. And so once they got pocket money, as soon as they were able to get a bit of work, I encouraged them to do that. And they might my daughter's on a gap year but she's a gymnastics coach and she gets paid to do that. Not a lot is a, you know, 10 or an hour sort of thing. My son was a day and a half in a local garage fixing cars. Not that he wants to be a mechanic, but I wanted him to hang out with some mechanics, and it's gross builds confidence because these guys, they banter they're down to earth. They're good. They're really hard. You're in the right place, I really love them. And they brought him out of himself. He was quite sheltered. And he's now much more confident. He sees the real world. And my daughter's mixing the real world now why working and dealing lots of children, but also they could only have they can only spend their own money. And my daughter's going to university and I've not promised to pay for it. Now, which doesn't seem real, but at the moment she believes that she's having to fund it herself. So she's getting a getting a student loans and all the rest of it. Oh, my stick you know, give her a few Bob along the way to help out we just bought, I bought her a car, and she's got all this stuff for a room at the university in halls and stuff, but she thinks she's going to come out of university with the debt. And she's chosen to go into that knowing when she comes out, she will have the debt they should have to either pay off or live with in her role in a responsibility when she gets a job. Now what I'll do is I'll know when we get there, I'll have a look at the situation I will probably pay off I want to learn for myself. I want Looks like personal responsibility, like very important. She's chosen to go, she wants that career, she can pay for it. If I want to give her a little treat in five years time, they will do that. My son, he doesn't want to go to university. He wants to go to work. He's a bit like me from that side of things. He wants to do motorsport. I've been doing motorsport for quite a few years he's been involved in that he wants to he's learning most will be actually wants to sit be a car salesman, believe it or not. I said, Look, I don't care what you sell. Only high end. So only Lamborghinis and Ferraris and stuff like that, you know, what a month was said, and I'll be laughing. So then that's 10 years away. But in the meantime, he needs to learn everything about cars, boats, or classic cars, and he's, he's doing all that so you're encouraging them. You're trying to get them to understand the value of money. You're not holding over him like a sword of Damocles or whatever and you're but you're trying to sort of guide them and show them anything's possible. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. My daughter is pretty bad at saving. She does spend too quickly so and she pays a price for That by let her a lever that, you know, don't bang around. So she runs out.

Jason Butler 37:04
She's got to have some pain, right to learn. They're not the finished article, while they're young people,

Darren Laverty 37:09
when they're young, they're gonna put the hand in the fire and burn themselves. Well, sometimes gotta let him do it. And you know, she did my son is already a fantastic saver. Now. So is that nurture or nature? I think it's a bit in nature. And that To be honest, you know, because I wasn't that good at his age. But he has most amazing things. You know, I bought him a car. And I said, I'll spend the same on your cars I spent on your sister's only fair. He said, okay, but can I just use that money add to it, and he wanted a much better car. And he had a motor scooter which he and he's got the best computer that but all of it paid for himself part of the bill put into the car, everything else he saved for. And he is a really, really good saver. He's not profitable at all. He actually doesn't say, I'm not worried about him from that perspective at all. But my daughter does need a little bit of help around the air and I think her learning the value of earning your own money and spending your own monies is Stage one.

Jason Butler 38:00
Yeah. Interesting. Well, thanks for that. That's really good. So as we sort of another See, in terms of moving forward, I know you're very, very big in that you've got a fantastic thing called financial fitness Fridays, which I really, really recommend. Where can people find out more about what you guys are up to what you're doing and your videos and all that sort of stuff? where's the best place for people to go?

Darren Laverty 38:19
Yeah, so it's on the second site website, which is second dash site. So it's written out in full se, c o n d, dash site.com. If you go to the events page, people can register for it and what they do when they register, they get registered. So at the moment, we've got eight weeks, so this is week five tomorrow. And so what we do is we run it like a show. I think we got to try and make the finance a bit more interesting is a bit dull and boring. I think the key the key reason is we've done boring, it's delivered boringly by people that mean well, but they don't really understand human communication, and don't understand human motivation. And I think most were, it's easy to go and find out information on Google about finance. It's all out there. We don't need anyone if you really want to do the research yourself. What's more important is the psychology. And 80% of financial well being is psychology. It's getting people to want to have a better future want to say for the right reasons? What's their big? Why? Because if you get them motivated enough, they can go on a smartphone onto Google and find an answer. A good employer will provide the answers, but they also need to find the motivation. And what's missing is a lot of stuff gets put out there. And it's very poor engagement, as because it's not effective. It's not connecting people emotional level, there's not a big enough. No, we don't find what they want. We don't find out why they wanted to do that bit. And so financial fitness Friday is a different way of doing it. Rather than a lecture was boring slides and a load of technical stuff. We bring the two together and I want to make sure that we look at the financial well being aspects of every subject. So what I tend to do is I run it like a show, I do an introduction I talk about the psychology of it and why that one and the particular subject we're talking about, I try to link the Together, then I bring in a specialist in that particular area. And then I interview them. They we have a few questions set up to get the thing going, then we take questions from the audience, it finishes in half an hour, we always end exactly the half an hour. But we also carry on running with q&a for another 15 minutes because that's something we'll have to go because of other meetings. But some people do want hang around. And if they put in questions that benefit the rest of the audience, then we answer those questions. We record them so we put them on a YouTube channel as well. So people look at the previous ones, they're all there on the on the foster de novo YouTube channel. You can access it through the second side webs a second site as you can see there, there. There is the Employee Benefits part of foster today versus one company really we're just two different divisions.

Jason Butler 40:52
fantastic resource. Darren's really, really brings it alive. I never missed a financial fitness Friday. I was watching the recording because I can't watch it live but I always watch it I've been in the business for years and years and years I write and speak about all this. I love everything he does. He's a really tough guy. So what words of wisdom or top tips could you leave our listeners with? Before you go there?

Darren Laverty 41:12
Anything you want to sort of leave? Yeah, something I'm banging my drum about a lot the moment because I've realized how important it is. I'll tell you the truth about something happened to me. Two years ago, one of my one of my finest friends took his own life. And what was shocking about it was that he had a few problems for sure he was an ex military. So he had some of those things. He carried them around, he lived with them. But you know, what really shocked me was when we talking to his family unraveled his affairs, you could see the completely run out of money, two days before he went. And, um, you've made I mean, we actually jointly bought a little boat together for the river. Now, he wasn't thinking of exiting early at that point. But you win, and we don't think we Put it down to is you've run out of money in it and he had a lot of cash from the sale of a house and it just frittered it all away. And it got and two days before he took his own life, that money had gone. So we realized that one of the triggers one of the key things was his financial well being, the well being so important for our emotional well being. It really is, if we can get finances in order, life's a lot easier, you know. And so I decided at that point that I'm going to expand my work further, I'm gonna go deeper because whilst I'm improving the financial well being of thousands of people, I know that there's a few out there I'm saving a life or two, because we've got them to go in slightly different direction now before it's too late. So that really boosted my endeavor to never let that happen again, and one of the key things I think that people don't do and employers don't encourage it, I would say before we do anything, make sure you've got an emergency fund of cash. You imagine if you had two or 3000 pounds into the accessible in the bank to cover expenses. Before COVID came along, can you imagine how less stressed people will be about job certainty and furloughing and pay cuts and less, because we've got some cash. And then when that emergency comes, what's it therefore? Yeah, you get emergency we get, we get expensive vet bills and boilers and car engines and those sorts. It's the money's there. We've got to find the money for these things, we've got no choice. If you've got an emergency fund, it's just going down a slippery slope of toxic debt. So my my advice to anyone I meet and everywhere I go to, we've got to have an emergency fund as the as the fundamental piece of our financial planning foundation that then of things come from that start there. What we do in the workplace, everyone's focused on 3040 years down the line, I think we need to focus on right now. Get that bit done, decide how much you need to how much you need, in that you know, how much you need to have in abundance even if you can't think of a number start with 500 pounds, and then make it 1000 and then start going three months expenses and then go six months expenses but can be feeding that I'll tell you what that will take so much stress out people's lives. Absolutely. And it will be the foundation and the springboard for all the other financial planning that you might want to do going forward and and also to save each month out of your wages but take the savings out first. Save first spend what's left?

Jason Butler 44:21
Absolutely fantastic. Darren, you are a superstar I love it. I could listen to you all day. Absolutely love your passion, your kindred spirit and I think you know you're doing great work so look check out the second site website the foster the novo YouTube channel. Darren's also got a fantastic book if you're if you're an employer looking to get what's the name,

Darren Laverty 44:41
Make their money count. And it's how to run an effective workplace financial education program wrote it two three years ago. There's a lot of psychology in there. That's important. If anyone wants one, just contact me through the website or LinkedIn and I'll send you a free copy electronic copy no problem at all

Jason Butler 44:57
And I can recommend is a fantastic but well well worth reading. Not gonna copy, always refer to it. Fantastic. Darren, thank you very much for being on. Appreciate your time.

Darren Laverty 45:05
Jason, you're doing a brilliant job out there, mate. You are changing the world. Now make sure you keep doing what you're doing, mate. I like watching you too. So one day, I might just get you on financial fitness Fridays and we'll change pists. How's that?

Jason Butler 45:18
Oh, yes. I'm always up for a bit of exposure. Yeah, absolutely. share the love.

Darren Laverty 45:22
We'll do that. All right. Take care and good luck.

Jason Butler Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me, Jason Butler. If you'd like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai