46. Emma Maslin Figures Out the Big Money Issues

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This week I speak to Emma Maslin, money coach aka The Money Whisperer.

Emma had a good relationship with money from a young age and observed an entrepreneurial streak in both her father and grandfather.

As a graduate from university, Emma qualified as a Chartered Accountant in 2006 in a “Big Four” accountancy firm where she worked in corporate finance, valuing businesses for takeovers.

Deciding to put her natural understanding of finances to another use, she started a blog to help people with basis financial situations. Quickly she realised that she could have a great impact on the financial education of others if she could teach the right money mindset with the aid of practical guidance and tools. Training as a money coach, she now does just that.

A great episode delving into the truth of your financial mindset and how you can reshape it with the right guidance and tools.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details, and remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested. Hello there, Jason Butler here. Before we get into the show, I just want to point out a couple of resources that might help you or those you care about be better with money. I've written two blogs recently one all about whether university makes sense, is it still sensible for most people, and I've also written one called the eight money milestones. And this gives you a framework to make really good wise, sensible financial decisions. So check it out at jason-butler.com. Let's get into the show.

Hello there. And thanks for joining me on another edition of Real Money Stories podcast, the weekly podcast where we speak to people from a wide range of backgrounds, about their money journey, what they've learned and what they wish they'd known when they were younger. This week, I'm joined by a very interesting person, a money coach, no less. Ms. Lim, hello. Hi, thanks for joining us on the show. So just before we sort of go back to little Emma, smaller as it were, can you just tell people you know, what do you actually do? I said, you were a money coach. What does that actually mean?

Emma Maslin 1:55
So I help people understand their stories with money. how we behave with money is all impacted by what happened to us in the past. So a lot of the work I do is helping people are pick the stories and that little voice in their head that's telling them stories about what they do and impacting the behaviors that they show in their adult life. Hmm,

Jason Butler 2:17
great. Well, I mean, I, I've been wanting to get you on the show for a long time, when in fact, I'm, there's loads of people I want to get on the show. But you were definitely on my list because I know that money stories, as you know is what this is all about sharing people's stories, sharing their own journey so that we can break the taboo down and just share our insights and some of the stuff will be useful for some people and other stuff will be useful for others. So let's go back then to sort of your early money, memories. Tell us about that.

Emma Maslin 2:45
Well, I I had a really interesting childhood. I've always had a very positive relationship with money. My father worked for himself and his whole career, and he worked for my grandpa That who also worked for himself. So we have a kind of entrepreneurial streak although the word entrepreneur didn't didn't come into my vocab when I was young. But I realized what it as an adult, what I realized now is that it made me see what is possible, you know, when you want something in the world is your oyster in terms of the choices that you make?

Jason Butler 3:21
Hmm. So, you know, you say your dad was self employed, what was your What was your dad's business?

Emma Maslin 3:28
He had the business. So we live on the outskirts of Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes was being developed after the war, my granddad set up an electrical contracting business. So my dad was an apprentice electrician for him. And then he took the business over when I when I was younger. And he gave that up after actually after quite an interesting experience where one of his clients went bust owing him money, and he had enough of it. And so he then went into poverty so he then became a professor No property investor right he's done a couple of big things and and you know that has taught me the value of seeing where we can put our efforts and our attentions into building assets to help us and an income rather than trading our own time for money

Jason Butler 4:19
Hmm So growing up in Milton Keynes or the area was and your dad was the electrical contractor what were your early sort of money memories Can you can you remember your earliest one?

Emma Maslin 4:31
Okay, well we we used to live next door to a paper shop

Unknown Speaker 4:36
shopper switching

Jason Butler 4:37
over sweeteners. Well, yeah,

Emma Maslin 4:38
if this I remember the sweets more than I remember the papers. I remember the smell when you went in those tiny Penny sweets. I mean, yeah, it would be incredible now for me to say to my children that I used to get 20 p pocket money, and I used to be able to come out with 20 sweets.

Jason Butler 4:57
Remember?

Emma Maslin 4:58
Yeah, I mean, what can I do? Know how much Mr. Spock a single Mars bar cost now but I mean 20 he wouldn't get you probably a freddo I don't think so. Yeah 20 individual Penny sweets and I used to live has been ages sitting there like deciding which 20 we're going into my you know use appeal the paper bag often you and and decide which ones you wanted and then hand them to the counter so that's my that's my very earliest memory.

Jason Butler 5:25
So Emma you were there high profit center you were there kind of you've already thought things through about which of those choose and sweets and things you're going to have in your bag for 20 p so that that's interesting. So So how did you feel when you came out of the shop with your 20 days worth of sweets? What was your thinking feeling?

Emma Maslin 5:41
Well, at the time, you know, I was very much all about consumption. I was very proud that I had something that was mine and it didn't last very long. So there was no delayed gratification. There was no thinking about what what was the alternative for that money. I was very much into well if I've got Now, and I know more is coming next week. I'm just going to spend it so I enjoyed those sweets and I'll probably add them before it even got in the front door.

Jason Butler 6:07
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? I can remember having my I had a pound pocket money. And not every week because my mum was a bit erratic with money, but I remember getting that pound and going to buy I think it was three or four chocolate bars and fizzy drink eating them all in about 10 minutes and feeling sick. Why did we do that? I mean, strange things just because you can write. So sweet shop was next door, the newspaper shop rather that happens to sell sweets was next door. you consume that all before he got home. And then you know, bear in mind your dad was running a business, what sort of money conversations were happening as you were growing up, you know, as your young child as you're going into getting older.

Emma Maslin 6:43
We didn't have that many money conversations. So now when I reflect with clients and things, one of the questions I asked them is, you know, what, what did your parents teach you about money? There weren't very many explicit conversations in our house around money. If I were to say, You know what? Did my dad and mum Teach me I can't recall much teaching, but actually, from what I know, from what I do now a lot of it is absorbed and what we see what we hear what we experience. So, you know, I think, you know, we were very much a family who enjoyed experiences over material things. So that was obviously very handy. And we always lived in houses where they did them up, so they bought them as renovation jobs, and then we lived in, you know, a few rooms while another few rooms were being done. So, I guess what I learned there without an explicit conversation about it is that you can you know, to the extent that you invest your time, and your money, you can build something great. And, and I think so, one of the things that you know, I saw was was experiences were important. So as a family we spent a lot of time camping every weekend we will campus so we had a trailer tent. When I was very young and then a caravan through into probably my early teens and and you know we we used to enjoy things that cost no money so my earliest memories my, my deepest you know happy memories of my childhood were were spent camping and I can't remember ever needing any money to do anything you know we had. We had our bikes and we can't put other families and our friends were our amusement and we really didn't need the material things to make us happy.

Jason Butler 8:35
It's funny because my 21 year old daughter says that the best holiday she ever had was when she was six. I took a camping. It was horrendous for me, but she loved it.

Emma Maslin 8:45
Good. Well there is either in you or it's not like my husband is definitely not a camper. And like I said, you know they were my fondest memories and I won't brag girls, I want them to have those memories and we're very lucky that my mum and dad have bought a static holiday home in Norfolk that we visit as often as we can. And and it took it took us a long time to even convince my husband that that was an acceptable way to holiday. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 9:15
Yeah, Yeah, I did.

Jason Butler 9:17
Okay, so you gradually you absorbed This is a really important point you made is that it's not just about sitting down and talking about money or important is that is in a positive light, that you were observing your parents of how they were using their money, and more importantly, their time. And that was both the camping experiences, and your dad's are doing these fixer upper houses and stuff. So did you ever do as you were growing up? Did you did you were there any tough times financially that you experienced as you were growing up with your parents? Were there any times when you get to sort of, you know that to pull the belt in or that you weren't sure about what's going to happen?

Emma Maslin 9:52
No, not that Not that I'm aware of. And I think you know, I wouldn't say had a sheltered childhood. But I think when you run your own business, you know, I think Dad Dad is, is a great businessman and he's he's probably my my biggest inspiration when it comes to what he's achieved. And, and I think he did a really great job of managing those emotions because for children to experience any sort of anxiety around money in the home when they're growing up, it can have a really, really profound influence on how they then view their ability to have conversations with their partners when they grow up. And, and the way that they interact with money and I'm extremely fortunate that I never experienced any any anxiety in in and around money in my formative years. Did you have siblings or

Jason Butler 10:49
have you got siblings?

Emma Maslin 10:51
Yeah, and actually, really interestingly, we all like chalk and cheese when it comes to money. I find it really fascinating. Because there's the whole kind of nature nurture debate, and and when we talk about how how you are brought up influences your money story and how you then go go through in adulthood to behave around money and exhibit the behaviors that you do, you would assume that two children brought up in the same household would interact in the same way. But it just goes to show that we don't all experience the same experience and take the same meaning from it. And I've just trained in neuro linguistic programming in the last in the last couple of months and that's a really important thing to take around how our brains work. You know, if if you witness a an accident on the street and the police interview 10 different people about the accident, everybody will recall somebody different from exactly the same situation. And it's exactly the same when it comes to money. My sister and I, we had all the same opportunities. We did all the same experiences all together as a family, we're very close family. And yet, you know, she's very much live for the moment adult, and I'm much more of a planner and I like to accumulate. So you know, it just goes to show that whatever we've taken from the experiences that we had we've we've been fashioned into a different behavior pattern as adults. Hmm.

Jason Butler 12:23
And that's a very important point. We are different personalities hardwiring and we we absorb things in different ways. different perspectives. That's really the point. Yeah. Okay, so So as you're growing up, so as you go into the teenagers, did you ever have like a paid job? Or did you do jobs for you that you got paid for her to do? Did you ever start? When did you start trading time for money?

Emma Maslin 12:42
Yeah, as soon as I could. So I remember my insurance card coming through. And now actually before that, so my friend and my friend's family had a strawberry farm down down the road from us and I ran the shop for them from when I was about four Team so that was a cash in hand job because obviously I was too young really officially to work. And so that was my first experience of working and absolutely loved it because you know, I love the family they were like family friends anyway and it was great. I was outside in the summertime I'm a big sun sun worshiper, so is my ideal. But then yeah, as soon as I've got my national insurance card, I remember dad taking me around and I went round the garden centers and the restaurants and the golf clubs and said, You know who has a job? Here's my CV, my, my fashion CV with not much on it. Age 15 I got a job out there. I got a job at a local Golf Club. So I worked as a waitress there and stayed there for up until I was about in my third year of university. I used to go back in the Union holidays and work and work as much as I could. And what did you learn about Sundays and bank holidays for the overtime

Jason Butler 14:00
Yeah, so So when you're working at the golf club, what was it you learned about work and the value of work and money and stuff? What What were you because that was your first time you're really starting to flex your own muscles, right your own money muscles.

Emma Maslin 14:13
Yeah. And I think once you start earning money as opposed to getting pocket money really does change the way that you view your money. And, and we used to get tips and I remember I was responsible for helping dish out the tips between everybody that worked in the waitressing side and the kitchen. So I used to, you know, add everything up and then divide it by the number of shifts that everyone had done. I was the math minded person. So that was the job that they gave me. And, and I remember putting them all into into cash. You know, moneybags needs to get like rounds of money bags from the bank and dish them out with everyone's name on and getting that physical bag of coins and sometimes notes was was even more exciting than having the paint to my bank account when it went in each month because physically holding onto something you know that was something that I was really proud of. It's nice it's nice when you interact with a customer that's had a nice meal and you know I actually loved it I loved I love the dog and I love the sense satisfaction that it gave me working the team and and being rewarded

Jason Butler 15:29
Hmm So you're obviously earning a reasonable wage working sounds like other things so so as you went into uni cut you built up savings or is it all on clothes going out and things you wanted to consume? Why do you arrange to build some savings?

Emma Maslin 15:44
No, I had some savings I you know, saved from from my part time job. And but then I got a part time job when I was at uni as well. I've just always had a work ethic. You know, I like I was never, I was never in a position where I needed money. You know, I never never never was in a position where I needed to work for myself because my parents didn't support me they did. But I guess I've always had that, that ethic that, you know, I will support myself and be independent. So yeah, my first year I got a, I got a job in the University Alumni office, calling up old alumni and asking them for donations. So used to do that a couple of nights a week. And that paid for, you know, a couple of nights of going out. So for me, it was a nice a nice way to balance the money coming in from the student loan and having a bit extra to do my fun stuff with.

Jason Butler 16:40
So it wasn't all saving for the future. You did sort of consume now. I mean, you were still doing the equivalent. Right? Okay. So,

Emma Maslin 16:47
I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a spendthrift at all I am. I enjoy it even now, you know, I'm not frugal at all. And I like the nice things in life. So I just believe that that we need plenty coming in to be able to support the lifestyle that we want. And everybody's everybody's desires around what that lifestyle is different. But for me, I'm much more focused on generating wealth and income at the top end to be able to support the bottom end rather than just focusing on Penny pinching at the bottom and

Jason Butler 17:20
yeah, filling the funnel. Yeah, I get it. So So tell us about uniden How did you navigate that? I mean, did you come out intact financially? Or did you have you know, sort of other than student financing Did you have big overdrafts or credit cards? I mean, how did you I mean, I presume you said you had a healthy social life. So how did it all when you left uni what what were you looking like, you know what the financial shape?

Emma Maslin 17:42
Well, my parents pay for my rent. So my student loan was essentially mine to fund my lifestyle. So I was really fortunate in that respect. So I came out the other end with a student loan and but went into into a great job. So for me, that's just Student Loan. I didn't ever see it as a debt. You know, it just it just was taken off. I never saw I never saw the repayments essentially. Because when I went into my first job, you know, the amount that came in as my pay packet was net of the student loan repayment. So for me, it was just a kind of tax to got me into that great job.

Jason Butler 18:21
No, I totally believe if it's if it's student financing, it's actually graduate tax, I just call it I say on every time we talked about this, they called it a loan because the local government time didn't want to be seen as a high tax party. It is a tax. So yeah, came out with no debt as such. So how did you compare to some of your sort of friends and peers at the time who were hitting the labor market? So you went into we'll come back to the job in a minute, but how were you compared to other people? Did you feel that you're in a better position financially?

Emma Maslin 18:54
I think I must have had a really interesting cohort because I don't recall Are any of us ever sort of saying I can't do anything because I haven't gotten enough money? And I did a business degree so I did a degree in business administration so f bomb was quite entrepreneurial on my on my course. And I think, you know, my experience is that we we all did quite well in terms of either working for the money that we needed to support our lifestyles or or making good with the money that we had from our from our student loans. Right I went to barf and I I fully admit, you know, that that there was it was a privilege bunch really that I was at uni with, and I think for a lot of us, we we had parents who paid for rent, which makes a massive difference. You know, if you're having to fund your your rental costs from your student loan, compared to somebody that that isn't having to, that's that's a huge amount of debt. In terms of disposable income, so for many of us, we were in the fortunate position that you know that money for us was was spending money and fun money to really enjoy those those four years. Hmm.

Jason Butler 20:10
So tell us about you went How did you get your first job? I mean, you know, what, did you know what you're gonna do? Or did you have that all lined up? Or did it just you know, you have to sort of, you know, grind it out and do the shoe leather to find something?

Emma Maslin 20:22
No, I am I did an amazing course at UT. So it was a sandwich course. So I worked to two industrial placements of six months, each one in the second year, one in the third year. And then I went to Copenhagen Business School in the fourth year. So we, we were kind of lucky that most of us headed into jobs as a result of our industrial placement. So I did in my second placement, I worked for Barclays global investors. I didn't go back to them. I went to Ernst and Young but it was all it was all as a result of the call. I did essentially we had a lot of sponsors that sponsors who sponsored our industrial placements. And we were all very fortunate to kind of fall into into those jobs. So it's, it's the type of degree that I think is amazing for coming out the other end of union having having yourself up, ready to go rather than having to go through that process of finding a job. Mm

Jason Butler 21:25
hmm. I gave a talk last year, last year, he why in the city and there are a great bunch, I mean, very interesting company. So you, you went into a while as a graduate trainee. Right. And did you hurt it? Was it a general placement in the sense or general job in the sense that you were going to work in lots of different departments or did they have you pitching hold and clear where you were going to be going?

Emma Maslin 21:49
pigeonholed I chose I didn't want to be an auditor. So I went into corporate finance right from the beginning. So our graduate scheme took us around four different four different areas. of corporate finance. And then at the end of two years, we specialize. But I also chose to then move over to Melbourne. So I, after a couple of years in London, I went over to Melbourne for two years that turned into seven years, which was the best seven years of my life,

Jason Butler 22:15
really. So you worked in Melbourne a while down, they're doing corporate finance. And I take it were you having quite big increases in salary, or is it very gradual?

Emma Maslin 22:29
I mean, our starting salary was good at the time. And then I performed well and did well during my time there. So and I think what I loved about why was that they were really into gender diversity, you know, I never had any, any quibbles that I might or Inklings, you know, that my my salary wasn't fair and just for the work that I was doing, and in comparison to my peers, so it Yeah, no, it was a great Great company in terms of career development and being able to jump up so by the time I went off on maternity leave Yeah, I was earning nice lots of money. Hmm. So

Jason Butler 23:09
tell us how you how your, your relationship with money your spin, though, what I call the year so you were starting out new into AWS after a couple of years. So do you did you did you buy a property out there? Or did you buy a property here or did you just keep renting or how did you do that?

Emma Maslin 23:25
My biggest regret if anyone ever asked me what my biggest regret is, it was not buying property in London before I left so I left to go to Melbourne in 2006. And and the job was something that I kind of applied for a bit on the spur of the moment but prior to that I had been house hunting for a two bedroom flat in London. And obviously that went by the wayside when I moved over to Melbourne but I so wish that I bought something and just rented it out while I was there and then come back to a hugely inflated flat but I didn't so went over there and read And, you know, I met my husband over there and we were both earning good money. We were proper donkeys, you know, dual income, no kids. And at the time, the Australian government used to pay us some sort of subsidy like a living away from home allowance. So we, I mean, we were very fortunate, but I was I was very astute and had aspirations to buy a property when we moved home. So didn't buy anything out there. It's actually quite hard to buy property in Australia, unless you're a resident and we didn't get our citizenship until just before we left anyway. And so when we came home that was one of the first things that we did was get on the property ladder back here in the UK.

Jason Butler 24:45
Hmm. So your husband, was he working in the same company or did you just meet him through professionally or I mean, I'm just trying to work out if you were coming from the same professional angle or you completely,

Emma Maslin 24:54
just like me, he got over on a recumbent from his company in LA And we met out there. So no, we didn't know each other beforehand, but he is English. So it was quite nice that we met, fell in love had a child and came back so that we're both back here now, near family. I have got friends that are still out there, you know that that met Australian men and you know, you're always torn between who is it who has to give up something and sacrifice something by being away from their family. So we were very lucky. We have the best years and then we came back here to enjoy, you know, building our family and growing our little family back around all of our own families, which is lovely.

Jason Butler 25:34
Yeah. So did you when you first met? did you how did you carve up the money responsibilities or who was lead person in different areas? Or did you just was it very solitary? Were you very new? Were you very, were you aware that you were very in tune or were you very different? How did you how did you align your priorities and your sort of your approach to money

Emma Maslin 25:56
I am a bit of a perfectionist I like to I like, I like to be in control. So when it came to money, it's always been my domain. And which is really interesting because, you know, I'm really passionate about saying that women shouldn't defer any of the money conversations to to a partner, you know, you should always be an equal in these conversations. But the reality is that women still do find themselves taking on the responsibilities around the household budget and more of the kind of financial decisions around childcare and things like that, whereas the men tend to, you know, and I'm very much generalizing, but this is based on my experience of working with clients. You know, the men tend to be the ones that think about the more longer term financial decisions like investing or the mortgage and things like that. So, you know, with us, it's always been a something that I've wanted both of us to be involved in, and I think that's why we've we've had such a kind of successful relationship when it comes to money, we don't argue about money because we are very open like I make I make him sit down every month and talk to me talk to me about our finances. Probably isn't what he really wants to do, but we do it anyway. So yes, it has always been probably driven by me. But I think it's really important that both both partners have an equal role in in something that's so meaningful to the future direction of your life,

Jason Butler 27:26
and turning it on a flip as it were this askew no sense to me, are you taking the lead in the relationship with the money and your husband is participating in it and feeling involved as much as he wants to, but you, you've naturally morph that role, and it may work with the other case with a different relationship and a man might take more of a lead or if you're in a same sex relationship, one of you may want to take the lead. But what would happen if you suddenly went under the proverbial bus? What do you feel that your car Your husband is is confident enough and capable to just take over the reins?

Emma Maslin 27:56
Yes, yes, we have our money dates. He knows Everything is and you know, he he's more than capable, he just knows that I am a perfectionist and that I'd rather do it my way.

Jason Butler 28:09
Fair enough. But the point I'm making everyone listening is that it's okay for someone in the relationship to lead. As long as you're not completely delegating everything and you've got no visibility or capability to deal with it in the event of a, whether it be an illness or death or something. So that's just an interesting point. And this is perfectly

Emma Maslin 28:26
definitely one of the very saddest stories I ever heard was of a client's grandma whose grandpa had died. And they have to take around all the banks in her town because she didn't know where, where their money was what who they banked with and that it just made me so sad. You know, she'd obviously been given an allowance by the granddad for their entire married life and didn't have any awareness of where anything was just heartbreaking to see that level of detail. feral to someone else in the relationship.

Jason Butler 29:02
We're doing lifeboat drills, you know, what if this happens, and what if that happens? And where is everything, it's not morbid, it's just getting out there. But some people that's their formal control, isn't it by controlling everything they think, and particularly traditional relationships, or we can call it that they've been, you know, very long in the making, it's difficult to get those people to change that because the power dynamics and the relationship dynamics may be different, but hopefully, some of the people listening who are a bit younger, they can just avoid that becoming a problem. Okay, so we know that you're a control freak, and you're perfectionist, right? And you take the lead on Monday. Okay. So that's fair enough. But you're honest about it, right? As long as you know what you are. That's cool. So, but when you came in, you see, when you come back to the UK, you came back with a little one, right? Yes. Right. So did they have a big impact on your your family finances, or, or did you both take the same amount of time off? Or did you know was it How did you how do you manage that transition because for many people, when they start Family is a big thing, isn't it on their finances?

Emma Maslin 30:03
It is, um, I never returned to a why after I went on my first maternity leave. So we, we took a significant kind of hit in going from a dual income family to a single income family. And, and I had my children in fairly quick succession, there's less than two years between them. And in that time, we moved back to the UK. So there was very little time for me to get another job before I was pregnant again. So yes, it was it was an interesting time for us. But we had planned for it. And I think that's, that's what's important we, in advance of getting married and having children knew what we wanted to do. And so we had been saving to enable me to take that time off, and for us to change our lifestyle. So I didn't know that I would never go back. But I've always wanted to spend that time a significant chunk of time with my children when they were little. So we had built that into into our planning.

Jason Butler 31:11
So okay, I know you probably had a very you both enjoyed a very healthy income, let's you know, probably well above the national average, but put this aside the exact numbers, it's still a challenge to come back and buy a house and build up a buffer for to see you through this kind of reduction in income. So was it just that you had the foresight to really plan for this many years before? So when you first met each other and decided you were going to stay together long term? Did you then use that when you started doing it? Or was it just a year before? Or just you have a great bonus here? or Why did you because many people would find that, that double challenge.

Emma Maslin 31:44
Okay, so we moved back in 2011. So we moved back here not really knowing whether or not because we were in Australia, we were very, very sheltered from the global financial crisis. I mean, We used to talk about the global financial crisis, but it really didn't impact Australia anywhere near in the same way that it impacted the rest of the world. So we continued to work well over there. And I also got into the stock market at the beginning of the financial crisis. So I decided, like the risk loving person I am that now would be a great time to dive in and start investing in shares. So that's something that I did which obviously built me up. So got in, you know, when when shares were at the bottom of the market, and enjoyed some growth then before we needed the cash to build to buy a house in 2012. But obviously, we came back to the UK at a time when how the house market was really depressed. So I don't believe in luck at all, but a combination of savings in Australia and being transferred over here at an exchange rate which was the best that had ever been in the Seven years that we lived there, and, and depressed prices here, everything was just in our favor. So we have always said, you know, some someone was shining down on us for the choices that we made at that point in time. And like I said, I don't believe in luck. But we were extremely fortunate with the timing as much as anything.

Jason Butler 33:20
But I think there was luck in that you were lucky because because it just happened to that the stock market went your way and the exchange rate because it could have gone the other way. Yeah, and therefore you would have had to come up with more money. Okay, but you made your own luck in the sense that you've saved the money in the first place. Right. So that's fair enough. Yeah. So okay, some some sensible decisions, some foresight and pre planning to thinking ahead. Well, before it was going to happen, a few fortuitous things that went your way. Great. You came back, you bought your house plus you had the cash buffer, but what other challenges did you face when you were you know, because you said you had your children in quick succession, right. So they're not cheap other children and stuff. So how was that Were there any other challenges that you overcame? Or that you faced in those early years when the children were very small.

Emma Maslin 34:07
And the biggest challenge is, is as a as a woman and as a family is finding that that balance between work and childcare responsibilities and navigating that decision around is it worth going back to work? For me, I'd come from quite a high flying job to go back into something that was part time there was nothing that appealed to me that that would have challenged me sufficiently to make you want to do it for any period of time. So it was it was a tough time actually quite mentally coming from a place where we'd enjoyed the freedom of, you know, a lifestyle that was incredible in Australia and then we moved back to England with a young child and suddenly, I was at home all the time. It's really quite hard on yourself. Mental Health. So, you know, I'm a big advocate for for women and families making joint decisions around whether going back to work is is the right thing to do and not just from a financial perspective. Because often, let's face it going back to work by the time you've paid for childcare, there isn't much left over. And so you've really got to think about the the future progression that that going back affords you and another intrinsic sort of decisions. And but, yeah, that was it was hard in that in that time, and that's what really led me to, to doing what I do now, I wanted something that allowed me balance and also really challenged me and, and fired me up in a way that I used to be fired up when I worked in my corporate role.

Jason Butler 35:51
That's interesting. I just want to touch on the logistics for a little bit paying trinsic because, you know, I've got this new book I'm writing it's coming out later in the year and one of the big things I talked There's intrinsic extrinsic motivation. So you're talking about intrinsic this was it wasn't just the money it was what will make me feel fulfilled, will stretch me will make me Give me some contrast to being just mom but also to being another professional or whatever, because work is a key part in people's lives. So, so how did you and your husband arrive at the right decision on there? How did you make that decision that perhaps you needed to create your own role at home? How did you arrive at that?

Emma Maslin 36:31
Well, I made mistakes. First of all, I went back to work full time.

Jason Butler 36:37
Right, okay.

Emma Maslin 36:38
And not not to be why I went, I worked as a as a Bursa in a local private school and on paper, it was actually an ideal job. My children came to school with me. And, you know, working in the school, actually, it's a lovely environment, but I hated being away from the children for the whole time and The compensation in the form of salary didn't make up for the fact that I was working full time and not seeing my children. So for me, that choice was easy to not to not do that for very long. And then it became more What can I do? And how can how can we together and decide what the best mix is for the best for the both of us so I recognize that I have sacrificed in part my my education and my prior training and everything I went through to get my chartered accountancy qualification by not returning to that, but I've supported my husband to you know, essentially be the best that he can be his his role and in return, you know, he supported me to build my business which is in its it's in its infancy and in its building phase at the moment. So, I think, you know, they come sacrifices that you've got to see past the initial sacrifice and Now I couldn't be happy. You know, I absolutely love what I do. Three years ago, it didn't even exist. And it was just something that I decided to start doing one day because my husband watches a lot of football actually. And I was getting bored of watching. So I thought, right, I'm going to learn how to build a website and use my 15 hours a week, I'd worked out I spent wasting on Facebook while he was watching football to do something creative. So I built a website, bought myself a book on WordPress and learn how to build it. And from there, everything that I do has grown and spiraled, which is it still makes me pinch myself really, if I'm honest, today.

Jason Butler 38:40
Hmm. That's a really interesting point. You said you, you, we've all got time. I mean, remember, there's an amazing Arnie Schwarzenegger film talk where he talks about success and he says, We've all got time we've got the same amount of time. It's just where you choose to put your energy. And you say you were doing 15 hours a week as a football kind of widow as it were. You Cuz you were you're on Facebook being easily distracted and just sort of taking your mind off things, but you decided to channel that into something that was going to enable you to not just earn money, but also enjoy, you know, stuff beyond being in the family. Right?

Emma Maslin 39:15
Totally. But I mean, I always say when when people are sort of saying to me, what's the biggest way to generate wealth? How quickly can I can I get rich? You know, I say to them, it's investing in yourself, you know, to whatever you do, however you develop yourself, you are providing yourself with unlimited opportunities to go out and do good or make money or help other people. And so investing in what makes you happy, and that feeling of doing something that really lights you up, that's kind of the highest level of self fulfillment that there is, and if you can do that and make money then you're absolutely in a happy place.

Jason Butler 39:55
Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. I mean, I don't feel like what I do is work and I enjoy it. And I think feel privileged to be part of it. But as you say, it, we can't all get what we want from work in terms of ultimate joy. Sometimes, sometimes, because of where we are in our life or circumstances of the given situation. Sometimes we have to cut out cloth and we have to do things that aren't overly joyful. I can remember doing jobs, probably you did, you know, clean toilets, and drove vans and all sorts of noise. Yeah. So sometimes we can't always do a job that we that we enjoy, but we can find the joy in the the other things outside of work. But that doesn't mean say that that job has to be the continuous thing we do. Right? So we can might be for a period of time.

Emma Maslin 40:36
No, and I also think, you know, we're so conditioned still in society to believe that, you know, we go to school, we work hard, we go to university, we get a good degree, our measure of success is whether or not we get a good job. And I'm more and more becoming disillusioned with that. Because, you know, there are so many people out there that are doing jobs that they feel They were intended to do and that their their framework of life has led them in into down that path and into that job. And they feel that it's where they were always intended to be, but I don't think that is the case. You know, I think it's having the the bravery to say no actually want something, I want something different. I want something that is meaningful. And that leads potentially to two amazing things.

Jason Butler 41:28
Now, I agree and i think i think the point we're really saying there is that life is too short to prostitute your principles and your motivations and your value, doing something purely for money, because you think that's going to feed the family. Sometimes you might have to do that for a short period of time just because ends meet but to do that all of your life is is a sad state to be the richest man Yeah, yeah. Okay. So So tell us about the the Epiphany there What drew you into money coaching? And how did you what what brought you to that thing, having done all these big high powered jobs,

Emma Maslin 42:00
So, initially, I started the website, the money whisperer, and I was just writing my own experiences of various things to do with money. You know, I would sit it and baby groups with friends. And they don't ask me because they knew I was an accountant, they would ask me money related questions. And just because you're an accountant doesn't necessarily mean that you're any good with money. But it made me realize that so many people don't have a basic grasp of financial literacy and the basics. So I started off just writing about practical ways to be better at managing your money. And very quickly, I realized that people would read what I wrote, and they kind of nod along, and then they do nothing about it. So you know, I might talk to him about whether or not she had a will. And, and she'd say, Oh, no, I must get that sorted. And then six months later, I'd say Oh, did you did you do it? And they'd say, No, and it really it really fascinated me why people are Understand the the good in taking these actions, but they then don't go and do anything with the information. And that's what drove me into money coaching, understanding why people are blocked from taking particular courses of action, even though they understand that if they do take them, there could be a benefit for them. So that's what money coaching is. It's helping people understand essentially what's going on inside their brain, around their attitudes and their beliefs around money. So it's fascinating to me the whole psychology of money and, and how, how our formative years do play a major role in how we approach money as adults.

Jason Butler 43:41
So you've now been doing the money coaching for two or three years. So what would be your biggest insights you've that you can just share with us as we come to the end of the show that you've kind of not just learned from your own journey, but the journey that you've been on with other clients what's, what's the other two or three or four biggest insights that that people you want to share it today that might help Then move forward.

Emma Maslin 44:01
I think just talking about money is so important. You know, it still is one of the biggest taboos in our society. And I have so often have people come to me who come on their own, as in not as a couple. And I find it fascinating that people want to change their own relationship with money when they're part of a couple, you know, talk, talk to your partner, and talk to talk to your friends. You know, as soon as you as soon as you open up, you realize that you're not alone. And actually, none of us were taught about money at school. So if you feel that other people have everything together, and you don't the case, more often than not, is that they don't. It's just that nobody admits to anything. So that's what I love about building the community that I'm building and being in this space is the more we talk about these things, and the more we will use Make make it less of a taboo. I love. I love talking to my children, they know exactly what I do. We've actually done a bit of a lockdown project where my children decided that they wanted to be like mummy while they're at home. So they have been, they've been doing a project called the pocket money diaries. So they've been interviewing children from all around the world on zoom, about their pocket money, how much they get, what they spend it on, whether they save it, whether they spend it, and they've absolutely loved it. And for them, that's an extension of what I do. And I just want to be able to leave them with good behaviors around money. But more than that, the ability to talk to other people and make money normal.

Jason Butler 45:41
Hmm, great stuff. So in terms of how people can hear about you, what's your website called?

Emma Maslin 45:49
It's called the money whisperer.co.uk.

Jason Butler 45:51
Great. And so if people want to have one to one coaching or group coaching or see your resources, they just go there and they can contact you. Yeah,

Emma Maslin 45:57
yeah, they can and I've just adjusted Launched or it's launching on the first of June, a community for women exclusively because primarily women are drawn to me, I do work with men, but primarily women. So it's a community for women who want to become more financially literate. And I'm looking forward to growing that.

Jason Butler 46:16
Great, well, we'll make sure we give that a good push to all the people there because I think the work you're doing is just incredibly good. It's so powerful. I know the passion that you do with this, you know, your, your reputation, his procedure, in terms of what you're doing now. So keep doing the good work.

Emma Maslin 46:31
You couldn't see me blushing, but I am Thank you, Jason,

Jason Butler 46:34
very, very supportive of what you're doing. You know, I love money coaching, I think most people need a money coach. So if they're not getting where they want to go money wise, and living a rich life is not just about having a big bank balance. It's about making sure money's in in balance and doing the right things for you. So thank you very much for your insights you've been, it's been good for you to spend the time. We'll make sure that people know about your course and get on to it. And hopefully we'll have you back a few more in a little while in the future. Moshe, whatever next project.

Emma Maslin 47:02
I would love to thanks very much for having me.

Jason Butler 47:10
Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk For more details, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai