43. Neil Moles Plots a Steady Money Course

Listen to this real Money Stories episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Gaana, Stitcher or Podbean by clicking the links and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

This week I speak to Neil Moles, CEO of Progeny group.

Growing up in a modest household on the Yorkshire Dales, Neil learnt that there always had to be an element of planning concerning money.

A job at a building society at the age of 16 saw Neil pursue his love of maths and his passion for interacting with people. This combination led him into the world of financial advice.

Neil shares some great client stories and experiences. And he speaks frankly about the importance of personal responsibility, the challenges of growing a business, and the growing culture of entitlement towards money.

With many young people having to rethink their career options, Neil also makes the case for considering a role in financial services as rewarding professionally, financially and emotionally.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. Real Money Stories is the only UK podcast which shares personal money stories of everyday people. So their insights can help you to be better with money.

My name is Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money, journey, or world on the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more.

Hello, and thanks for joining me on another episode of Real Money stories, the podcast where we interview people from a wide range of backgrounds to hear their money story, their journey and their beliefs. I'm your host Jason Butler. And today I'm joined by again another interesting guest. I just I don't know where I find the people from but Neil Moles. Hello, Neil.

Neil Moles 1:03
Hi there, Jason.

Jason Butler 1:05
Hi, Neil, before we go into your backstory, and you just want to tell everyone what you do at the moment, what's your main business and what your main activity is?

Neil Moles 1:14
Absolutely, of course. So currently I am the CEO of the Progeny group, and Progeny is a financial planning business that combines legal and tax advice all under the same roof.

Jason Butler 1:29
Yeah, I think you're under playing a little bit there because you're, you're you're not like a kind of, I'm not taking this away from the smaller firms, but you're not small firm, are you quite large, you've acquired quite a few firms and you've got quite a lot of academic organic growth, you you you're many millions of pounds of revenue, and you got quite a lot of people haven't you?

Neil Moles 1:47
Yes, it's Look, it's been a fairly fairly fast journey for Progeny, but you know, a well plotted one. So as a business now we have around 160 people across eight sites in the UK, yeah that's still a thing at the moment? And yeah, revenues growing, you know, as well organically as it is organically inorganically should I say so? Yeah, things are really good. And we're looking to the future now looking to you know, embrace more technology and grow as a business in the coming months and years.

Jason Butler 2:17
And I know just, just before we get into this, I know you're always looking for really good people. So anyone who's coming either out of uni or is looking for a career switch who's really talented has got really good things you, your page, HR people want to hear from those people, whatever it is, so I know if they go to your website, they can probably put an inquiry that way.

Neil Moles 2:37
That's absolutely right. We're we're passionate about you know, creating something for the future. And I think it's really important. We have an academy here at Progeny. And one of the things that differentiates us as a business in that Academy is the ability to take graduates or college leavers and take them through if they want to be a financial planner. They can go through the entire academy, but they're not only going to stick with financial planners, they're going to spend a rotation and start with private tax. there are going to spend a rotation with private law and corporate law. So they're really able to get a full view of what progeny can offer a client, and hopefully develop themselves as better planners of the future.

Jason Butler 3:17
And I know and what's really interesting about your business now as a financial planners, you know, for 25 years is the interconnectedness between accounting tax law and the financial planning, strike investment and liability side of things. And that's unusual. So together with the Academy, well worth checking out their website, if you're looking for a job, or you're thinking of a career switch. So Neal, bear in mind, you are the you're the founder of this business, aren't you? Is that right?

Neil Moles 3:42
Correct.

Jason Butler 3:43
Yeah, okay. Now founders I've got a bit of an interesting, I love talking to founders because they are kind of part mad, but part of visionary part, sort of hard taskmaster, but also part great friends. So there they have to have lots of different hats and ease a lonely place to be. But I want to know how you ended up there and particularly specifically in relation to it because you're involved in the money business and touches everyone's lives how you ended up in the financial services sector. So let's go right back to I mean, did you grow up in Manchester? Is that right? We is that were you born?

I'm a Yorkshire lad, though sorry, born and bred.

Neil Moles 4:23
I know, you can't take it out to us. So you know for me in and around West Yorkshire was was my youth and my parents then decided to move into the ultra Dales as I was entering High School. And so home became a place called settle in the Yorkshire Dales. Lovely. And I think for myself, I always had a passion about numbers, and I didn't know whether it was at the time it was probably accountancy, but I don't really have a personality to be an accountant. And you mean you've got one not being

so you know, I made the decision to To leave school at 16. And because I wanted to, to pursue a career where I learned on the job as opposed to went down the academic purely academic route. And I was very fortunate to be given an apprenticeship as was at the time by Skipton building society. And I started off in the mortgage processing underwriting team. And he gave me a taste for what it was like to work. He gave me a taste for what it was like to earn money, which was was nice compared to my friends who were living at home and not having much to go out with. And it kind of started me on that journey of money. And I quickly realized that actually, it wasn't just the money that was important to me, it was people. And, again, I was fortunate enough to move across into Skipton financial services.

Jason Butler 5:46
But I thought a minute before before we crack on those great, I just want to go back a bit about when you were young, because I know you you had this feeling for numbers and you ended up with Skipton as your first job. But before that, what was it like growing up was it very appealing, or was it very modest? Did your friends have lots? Not a lot? was money tight? Was it was there? You know, what, what was the situation? Like? What was your first when you were very young, we were very aware of money and what he could do or couldn't do.

Neil Moles 6:14
And I was very aware of my friends that had money, all the families that had money, put it that way. And, you know, I think it's, and so I think, you know, things we were, we were working class family. And so money never never come easily. And so, you know, you're not fighting for every penny. But you know, I think you do learn to value money in a different way. And the certainly the opportunities it gives you but I think it also allows you to find happiness in different ways. You know, a lot of people use money to fill gaps in the life by going out and doing things and if you haven't got it, you've got to find different ways to fill those time slots and be happy.

Jason Butler 6:56
Hmm. So what sort of conversations were there? Home about money. I mean, my mom used to say money doesn't grow on trees, you know? Do you think I made her money? She said, All these things are created a scarcity mindset with me. I'm wondering if there were messages you were picking up as a child? Because they do. They're very formative, aren't they? And what were they?

Neil Moles 7:14
Yeah, so it's a really good question. I think money was, it's obviously important. I think the reality is, is that as a family, we were always very careful with money. And, you know, I remember parents planning out the weekly shop and working out how much they wanted to spend this week on that shopping versus other things they had. So you know, there was always an element of planning, which I guess stuck in my brain from a very early early part of my life. And yeah, money doesn't grow on trees. You know, you'd go home and say Mum, my mate Scott, this new Sega Megadrive as it used to be, or this new game, Sonic the Hedgehog, and it was literally money doesn't grow on trees you need to save up. And I think that's a certainly taught me an important lesson that you can't just have everything you want today. You have to say And wait for tomorrow.

Jason Butler 8:02
So what did you sort of when you were young sort of teenager did you do part time jobs and if so, you know, what did you learn about yourself?

Neil Moles 8:14
I had a variety of part time jobs Wow. And you know, it was a case of certainly living where I lived at the time which was in the Yorkshire Dales you were you were either serving tourism so working in coffee shops and working on farms in the summer and helping the farmers with haymaking and so local garages It was a total variety and really good to me because it gave me an exposure to different walks of life different types of industries and kind of really set me on the direction of where I wanted to go which wasn't that physical working in a you know, with Mohammed's environment for that reason.

Jason Butler 8:53
So when did you realize that I mean you you like numbers but you also like people tell me a bit about it. I Where did that manifest itself?

Neil Moles 9:01
People came later to be honest Jason i think is in teenagers like teenagers don't know boys like girls.

And you know, I think that's just growing up. That's life. We're all human at the end of the day. You know, you sat down with curry.

Oh 13 as you start to enter the you know the GCSE years and you know what you're going to do what you're going to be and you know, the question, the answer came out well accounts and save money I like I'm good at maths. And I think in a way back in the day careers advisors sent you down that first choice that you that you made, I think working with people came latter and it goes back to that point about Saturday jobs or various other things. I remember when I worked at Skipton building society, I would have been 1617. I used to volunteer to go and work in the branches on a Saturday morning. If I wanted to see what it was like at the sharp end, as everyone told me, and you have to sit in front of a client or a customer And that really developed that experience that I wanted and that interaction with people and it was probably at that point at 1617 years old sat on the counter counting you know 20 painted pieces that someone brought in to put into the post other building site passbook and that really ignited that passion to want to talk to people and interact.

Jason Butler 10:23
And so you you obviously started quite young didn't you? 16 was quite young to start work in today's terms. Did you have a sort of master plan or did you just you didn't you didn't sort of think oh, you weren't? Where you were you focused on a particular area. Did you think what did you have an idea of what good was going to be when you were say I don't know 1920? Or did you just think I want a car What about go on holiday just want the basics?

Neil Moles 10:50
Yeah, I think I did is the understand so because you know, I was working for a large businesses at the time and I quickly moved on from Skipton financial services because I realized that Didn't want to one didn't want to work for such a large business as it was at the time. And it was like the industry was different, you know, we're talking pre RDR here. So it was, you know, a lot of products coming through the door. And you know, that's not a place I wanted to be in. My desire to want to be in front of people kind of led me then into the world of financial advice, the front end. But, you know, surveying the businesses that existed at the time, it was fairly obvious, even to me as a very young person in the industry that it just wasn't sustainable. And, you know, the industry had to change going forward. And it was many years before it did, don't get me wrong. But I always wanted at that point to start by working for smaller businesses where you could really start to affect change. And then along that journey, the desire came that I wanted to work myself and lead something from the front.

Jason Butler But I'm interested to know also what your relationship with money was like as a young man, because I mean, everyone knows I had a terrible relationship. My early 20s with my You know, no embarrassment telling everyone about it? Were you really good with money? Were you the sort of person that held the weapon and held the float? And did you know sorted out the bill at the end of the, you know, totally up, we will use the money guy or you just Were you a bit of a free and easy way? I mean, did it come easy to you know, to organize and manage your money?

Neil Moles No, it didn't become easier because I've never had it before, I think is the challenge. You know, may you kind of remember the first pay packet and you think, oh, I've got all this money, what we're going to do, and then you say, Well, I need to put this much aside for petrol because I'm, you know, driving along way to work every day I'll be driven or catching the bus or whatever. So I can't ever remember getting to the end of the month with any money in the bank account. And you know, it was many years before that happened. And it was probably probably the enjoyment of having that money and where you were free to spend it. As opposed to being at home living at home where your parents will bring in the money and it wasn't your money. You weren't free to spend it. So it was It was incessantly a baptism of fire in that regard.

Jason Butler 13:04
I mean, when you were, did you buy a house quite young? Or did you wait a while? Or did you did you, you know, what was your view on property and stuff like that? Because I mean,

Neil Moles 13:15
so yeah, and I did buy a house relatively young. And, you know, very early on in my 20s, I, again, this was probably sort of drilled into us in the youngster that owning property is a great thing. And, you know, certainly growing up when I did a lot of people had bought property in the 70s and 80s. And, you know, done very well out of it. So, you know, that was always in built into me. So as soon as I had the opportunity, absolutely. I wanted to start start on the property ladder and now I was able to do so and, you know, good and bad experiences and in property and you know, people never tell me about the good ones, but so they've lost money on property over the years, you know, whether it's on vital apps or on property that love it. I lived in myself. Yeah, it's not an easy journey people, like I say, just tell me about the ones where the one?

Jason Butler 14:06
Well, I was just interesting because my last guest I interviewed, I just said all he's very successful. And he's very humble as well. But I just said, you know, have you made mistakes in the past because I've made loads. And it's not about closing other than mistakes, but you know, that you learn from them. And he said, I've made loads, but I've learned even more. So I'm wondering, you know, if you without going into the details of the things that didn't go, right, how did you make sure that you were learning from those mistakes that you didn't repeat them and that they added to your sort of store of knowledge? Did you did you sort of, were you honest with yourself, or did you just sort of dust yourself down? I mean, well, did you have a formal process for thinking about Okay, that has not gone right? What have I done wrong? Or did you just say was just easy come easy goes there happens.

Neil Moles 14:52
And I think when I was when I was younger, and you know, it's like bouncing the ball off a wall, isn't it ultimately you believe you're invincible. So you kind of make a mistake, dust yourself off believe that's just bad luck, you can't be my fault. I mean, crack on to the next one. And then, you know, the patent emerges that people do make mistakes, and that's absolutely fine. And in a way guys actually enjoy making mistakes now, because it's one of the only ways that you can really learn. And it's fine to make a mistake once it's fine to repeat it is not fine to do it a third time and clearly not learning from it. So you do need to have a process that you go through to learn from that and develop

Jason Butler 15:31
and how did you develop your idea of risk and reward I mean, everything from your career to your capital to your where you put your money, how did that evolve over the years.

Neil Moles 15:44
So I think risk and reward are different things at different times to many people. And this is you know, down to age and where you've come from what you want to achieve. And I also think it's different. Once you've got a certain amount of capital or wealth behind you, you can have a different risk profile again. So in my early days, you know, risk profile was off the scale. You know, as long as I got paid next month, I didn't really care what happened to the money in between the two periods, I didn't particularly care about investments, I always bought myself to go and earn money again next month or next year. I think as you mature, and you have a family, then things change. You know, it's kind of the first realization that you've got someone else to provide for in life, and therefore you can't miss so gung ho about money. And that certainly changed my my mental state into providing and therefore always making sure that there is a safety net in the bank. And I think the same is true in business. Jason, I think in the early days, when it's one or two of you can do what you want. You know, when you when you employ 150 160 people you've got you've got a moral obligation to look after them and pay them next month. So I think even risks in business evolve and change as well.

Jason Butler 16:54
So tell me about the transition and your views on money. When you That sounds a bit you've got a family or responsibility or partner or whatever. Was that? Can you remember that? Or did it just evolve over time?

Neil Moles 17:09
I think the thing that changed for me to be honest and this this is I'm sure you're aware having children, it's, you know, you stopped spending money differently, don't you? So, you know, it's not restaurant bills and bars. It's, you know, nappies and school fees, ultimately. It's not nearly as glamorous, it's a bit different, a bit different. I can honestly say, Yeah, and it's, I think it's you just kind of look at your money and your life, your life changes, not because you intended to change, it just does you focus changes and you know, therefore ultimately providing for someone else. So I don't think you aren't you. You program yourself to change. I think it's just a natural transition into the next part of your life.

Jason Butler 17:50
I mean, if you think about it, so you've got family now, right? Yeah, children. So when it's no longer yourself, that what I suppose I'm trying to Get out is is, we all go for our own different way of changing the reward, risk and reward spectrum, what we are not prepared to put on the line and so on. So what you're saying is when it was just you, or it's just a small business, you can take risks, and you can do things that you wouldn't have done otherwise. However, in another way, I suppose the thinking of it is when you've got obligations, whether it's staff or whether it's a family. Anyway, you've got to take more calculated risks, because you've got a bigger liabilities or a bigger obligation to meet. So it's a paradox, isn't it? I wonder what your thoughts are on that kind of, you know, paradox or dichotomy, whatever you wanna call it?

Neil Moles 18:36
Yeah, I think we can apply it to both business and personal, can't you? You're absolutely right. I think, you know, if you look at what we've done in the business, and when I'm talking about progeny in detail at the moment, you know, every every time you want to grow, every time you allocate budget to another thing, you've got to make sure that you've got the money in the bank to pay for it, the bigger you are, you know, every month it's amazing how payroll comes around. Quickly every month. And you know, we've gone from 10 people to 160 and four and a half years. Arrow comes around every month and gets a lot bigger very quickly. And, you know, there is there is that responsibility, I think is probably the key word to make sure that you know, you have got risk, which means that you're growing the business. But you're right, the paradox is you've also got to make sure you've got cash in the bank to, you know, to pay the people and also your suppliers and everything else as well. So the huge balance and I think that ultimately as a business and as an individual is defined by how you set up you know, your your capital behind you.

Jason Butler 19:41
So when you think about the challenges that people have today with their money, do you think the challenges today are different to they were when you were a young man or do you think they're just the same, that there are challenges but they're just different challenges

Neil Moles 19:59
you know, I'm 40 years old. So, you know, 2520 years ago, we were, we were all buying different things. We, I think habits have changed. I think social habits have changed. And I think expectation and, you know, one words that I feel a great sense of in the, in the world at the moment is entitlement. And, you know, I think there's a culture and an environment now whereby if you want something, you have to have it. I think when I was growing up, that didn't exist, you know, if you want it something you have to say for it, because credit didn't exist in the same way that it does now. So that's been a big mental shift. And I think that's pushed people away from the mentality of saving to buy something. It's, I'll buy it and deal with it later. When does later end, you know, it leads to bigger mortgages, longer mortgages, interest only mortgages. You know, there's a great saying isn't the nevernever so I think that for me is being The biggest shift our sense of when you can have something versus when you had to save for it. And I think that has certainly transferred itself into the the retail social habits. But it's also I feel transferring its way into people's savings plans now in terms of what was put in towards retirement. In other thing cuts. Okay, I can retire later. Well, yeah, but that has to be a choice, not a necessity. And so I think overall, it is this desire to have things now instead of saving that is changed society or changed in society.

Jason Butler 21:37
And what effect Do you think that that consumption mindset happy to take debt on what what impact do you think that has on people's financial well being?

Neil Moles 21:48
I think it puts an amazing amount of pressure on people. And, you know, we've also got social media now that you know, creates that expectation of likes, even you know, getting dressed up, you have get so many likes, you know, otherwise it's not worth doing. So I think it puts a huge amount of pressure on people, and especially for those that maybe aren't as, as lucky. And I use that word carefully met perhaps don't have as much money as those that do still want to appear that they do. So therefore potentially taking on more debt, which has, you know, even more adverse impact on your mental and financial well being. And I think that is really difficult to deal with. And as a society, we have a responsibility to educate both those that have and those that haven't or haven't as much, and just to, you know, to make sure that not getting into big debt burden, which is so, so easy to do. And, but, you know, again, financial institutions haven't haven't been I don't believe in that responsible either. And I think they've thrown money at people, whether it's student loans, interest free credit cards, overdrafts. It's so easy to Getting debt in your early 20s. That you're not repaying until you in your mid to late 30s. at best.

Jason Butler 23:06
Well, I suppose the way to look at it is that always be drug dealers that always be pubs, but you have a choice as to whether you take drugs or you drink yourself to oblivion. So it's the same thing I suppose we have to inoculate ourselves against the financial peddlers or perhaps, so I'm just interested to know, your partner or wife or whatever your situation is. How you navigated the finances when you came together? Or did that just evolve over time? Because that's quite a thorny thing for lots of people, particularly if you've both been in you know, financial services, jobs, I don't know what your situation is, but how did you navigate that? That kind of managing the finances as a unit or did you keep them very separate?

Neil Moles 23:52
Yeah, we both come from financial services, which makes life you know, quite interesting when it comes to budget planning. Anyway.

Jason Butler 24:01
And my spreadsheet Give it to me.

Neil Moles 24:04
Absolutely alkaff password protected it.

Guess that one? And I think, for me the most natural thing, look, if you're gonna spend the rest of your life with someone or certainly intend to, then I think it's important that you share everything, you know. So for me, it was always one pot of money. So as soon as as soon as we got together all those years ago, it was one bank account, or even even if there were separate bank accounts, all the all the salaries or wages went into one and all the bills went out of that account as well. And, you know, I think I think it's personally and I know people have different views on this. I think it's important to have that transparency over finances. And I've also seen so many horror stories of people keeping finances independent and something going wrong with one of them and the other one not finding out about it. So for me, it was really important that we had that that transparency in the relationship.

Jason Butler 24:55
And given the job you do. I'm interested to know because I experienced this when I was a financial planner. Have you ever experienced through your professional work? examples are what I call financial infidelity. So that breakdown of trust or things that were done separately, or mistakes that were covered up that they didn't share or whatever it was, or they weren't being honest with each other? Did you ever Have you ever experienced or seen that and the implications of it?

Neil Moles 25:18
Many times, unfortunately, I can tell some real horror stories, you know, anything from, you know, people getting paid into different bank accounts that the spouses don't know about. So the salary might go into the joint account, but the bonuses going into a separate one. Not really, after I've seen that, and that didn't end well then. And he was doing it. And yeah, I've also seen at the other end of the spectrum, people who were brought up with money coming from different sort of inheritances, and the never knowing what each other's worth. I remember one sat in a meeting where the both handed me sealed envelopes, birth couples, couples, the husband and the wife and I was not allowed to tell the woman Wasn't each envelope, really. So you know, you literally have to sit there and say, Look, I can't advise you if this is the case, we've either got full disclosure here or one of you needs a new advisor.

Jason Butler 26:09
And so they were running their relationship on the basis that neither would tell each other what their inherited wealth was. Yeah. So what do you think that says about the people and their situation? Do you think they're coming from a position of fear? Is it a position of wanting to control or power or not feeling secure? Where do you think that comes from?

Neil Moles 26:29
I think it came from it didn't come from control. And it didn't come from lack of trust. And I think it came from in this particular set of circumstances, rightly or wrongly, the parents of the individuals, saying, you know, that's your money, I'm giving it to you look after it. And I think there's a, an element of, you know, wanting to do the right thing and pass it on to to their bloodline. And so, you know, but perhaps in other circumstances where it has been, you know, Most This is my part, this is my part, we spend certain things together. But apart from that we keep things totally separate, then, you know, as a business, I know we've got clients like that now.

Jason Butler 27:10
And what do you think couples who are having can put it challenges combining or making smart moves together? Because this is a single biggest problem that I think a lot of a lot of families suffer. What do you think they can do to to improve their situation when there are conflicts or disagreements or obstacles or even lack of disclosure? What can they do practically?

Neil Moles 27:34
Like I think what a good financial planner is a financial coach and emotional coach in many ways, and the counselor. So I think it's important for a financial planner to sit down with people as that that coach counselor and start to talk to them about the fears that they have over that but also to demonstrate to them in the power of planning together. Now because of the way the UK taxation system works, clearly There's a lot of advantages to sharing that information and sharing allowances where possible as well. And you know, the power of joint planning is greater than the power, the power of single planning for each other. And, you know, I think you can, you have to help them visualize that, then I think it just takes time. And I don't think there's an overnight fix to this, because each two sets of circumstances will be totally different. And I think through through good planning through good education and good counseling, I think you can gradually get people to believe in what is you know, from a planning perspective, the right way to do something, emotionally might not be and but you know, you can't always achieve all of your goals. So I agree, it's a massive challenge. And again, this comes back to what where we were really suffering the UK, though, isn't it's fine talking about the, you know, the the elderly generation in those circumstances. But I fundamentally believe we're not educating people properly in a school level in terms of right answers. And, you know, the government changed the legislation. So often the change the terminology, you know, in the ISO legislation, you ask a 15 year old or a nicer is no idea. And I think if we educate, and we kick that process off early, I think we'll deal with a lot of those problems and what the expectation is of couples coming together, what the rules are, will be so much easier for people.

Jason Butler 29:26
And just thinking about me office have quite a few people who are listening who are business owners. How do you there is always a blurring between the business no matter how big or small it is, and your personal finances? What's your How have you managed to navigate that yourself? Or, you know, because you must have had some challenges in the early days between the separation because at the end of the day, in the early days, it was just you right? Yeah.

Neil Moles 29:51
Yeah, well, I think in the early days, it's everything, isn't it? all you've got is your business. He heart, soul and pocket and you know, and you You've you've been there as well, Jason, you know what it's like. And it's, I think as time goes on, I think you can start to separate out the two things. I think this comes down to risk and reward again, though, I think as a business becomes more successful, and you are able to, to share some of the profits of that business. I think you diversify. And I think it's important to you know, I think plan a for a lot of people is to build a business and sell it, you know, buy a yacht and sail the galaxy is that does no, not it doesn't happen, or you certainly not buying the young, you know, you're buying a rowing boat. So I think because of that, you have to have a plan B and A plan C, you know, as we say, hope for the best plan for the worst. So I think it's important as part of any strategy for a business owner to Yeah, calculate the risks and that's their job to do. We can only guide I think thereafter, they have to have that plan of saying, right, what if I don't sell the business? What happens? What do I Put aside, where do I need to put it? What's the most tax efficient way of doing that? So that at the end of the day, I have a viable Plan B, that still gets me off this journey when I want to get off it, okay? might not be as rich as I wanted to be, but it's okay, because I'm still going to have an amazing life. And I think if you have those two factors in play, I think you can then separate again, the personal decisions from the business decisions. And I also then I think, it allows you to be more successful in business, because you don't just think about the exit event where it's all on the table in one go.

Jason Butler 31:36
You know, so you're not, you know, you know, sort of concentrating on the one thing you I mean, that's always the problem with a lot of business owners, they, they they don't want to take money off the table as they go because they see so much opportunity and you've seen that in your own business, haven't you? There's so much opportunity. So how do you get the balance between keeping money in a business that you really believe in and want to grow and taking Some off the table to sort of stuffy down the sofa metaphorically speaking

Neil Moles 32:05
it's a really difficult one because unfortunately, some of the fishermen stars or the on the telly about the ones that when you know you everyone's looked at Facebook and Twitter and Amazon and all these, you know, amazing stories of people that have managed to stay in the game. I've become, you know, billionaires. But the reality is, that's, it's, it is one in 2 billion or whatever the the stats are in, it's just not sustainable for the majority of people. So I think you have to, I think with anything, I think you have to have an exit plan. So any business owner should know what the potential exits are, and and how that works for them and then start to work towards that. It doesn't have to be three or five years, it can be 10, it can be 15, it can be 20. It can be retirement, I think you have to have that plan. And, you know, ultimately, money's not everything. So be worth, you know, a billion pounds for example, or a mil a million pounds isn't, you know, everything In life, and you go back to my comments earlier, actually, happiness isn't formed just by having that big bank balance and from experience, it doesn't create it. So I think you've got to work out what your magic number is. And I know we talk a lot in financial planning about magic number planning. And we still need to fulfill my dreams, any more than that, actually, do I even need it? I think if you can work that number out and then work backwards, you can get to that one very quickly. And then you can work out, taking risk off the table dilution, whatever you want to call it, selling some shares to people in the business. There's lots of ways that can help you facilitate and achieve that, that then allows you to take risk with what you've got left on the table.

Jason Butler 33:43
So what do you think t if you look at your money, journey, your personal relationship with money? What are the things that you've learned the most? Now looking back and I know that you're still young in your early 40s. But what you know now that you wish you'd known when you were sort of 1819 or will become clearer to you now with the passage of time and experience.

Neil Moles 34:07
And I wouldn't listen to build us on by flight property.

Jason Butler 34:13
Oh, I can see the voice of experience of the skulls.

Neil Moles 34:15
Yeah, I always get three quotes. And, you know, don't buy too many cars. And now I think, look, I think I'm very much like you I enjoy making steaks. And I've very much enjoyed the journey and the learnings that I've had so far, and I'm, I'm looking forward to making more mistakes as we go on. You know, I think it would have done anything differently. Absolutely not. Could it could have been a different journey. Absolutely. Yes. And but I think the learning is what created me as a person and, you know, in part by progeny is a success today, so I wouldn't change anything. You know, I started paying into a pension when I was 18. And, you know, I know a lot of people don't do that, but probably one of the wisest things that I did. And, you know, it allows you to, to get ahead of the game. And in the years when, you know, you probably should have it's one of those strange things, isn't it when you're you're 18, and you're living at home, apart from the board that mom and dad may ask you to pay, you know, 100% of your income is disposable. What are the point in your life? Is that true ever again, knows. And also, he had started the pension great, you know, got a little bit of money in there. But you know, 100% of my income was disposable, I can do what I want with it. Now, it's not true. And it'll never be true ever again, even if, you know, you retire with lots of money is still not only sort of council tax to pay. Yeah.

Jason Butler 35:47
That's a good point. So I'm just thinking for some of the younger listeners, because we get quite a few young graduates and people new, you know, new to the labor market tough times at the moment for a lot of people very uncertain. I mean, you know, we've had it in the past and you know, I've experienced it. What's your what's your advice for those people thinking we're just either starting out, or we're starting out or have had a bit of a sort of blip in the start their career, is there any, when it comes to sort of creating the career and getting into good money habits, anything you can share with them that they could take away now?

Neil Moles 36:22
Yeah, look, I think. let's deal with the first one, which is Korea first. I think it's hard for a lot of people at the moment, clearly, we were living in, you know, very uncertain circumstances. And hopefully, you know, things will settle down soon, but a lot of people left college left University and without even sitting an exam recently, and, you know, we're about to have a lot of unemployment. So it's going to be difficult. You know, the ultimately, I think there's a lot of good tips out there on good CV is good interview techniques. And I think there's a lot more access to that now. And you know, There is no substitute for hard work and be more innovative in your approach to employers. You know, don't wait for an advert to come out, reach out to people be the person who's asking for a job, not replying to an advert is what I will do. And when I, as a business owner, get a CV from someone out of the blue, especially from a graduate, they're the ones that we talk to, you know, so I think you can be proactive. And I think that really shows that desire and research to the businesses that you're talking to, you know, we still get so many interviewees that come in who haven't even looked at the website, you know, they're almost taking the box of applying for a role and there's so much you can do to put yourself in the shop window. I think that's really important. And I think, you know, ultimately when it comes to money habits, again, I guess the world's been reset a little bit recently, Jason, I don't think that level of entitlement is there. As I said, recently, I think you know, a hook is more important than a new car right now. So probably Maybe haircut as well have a nice and, you know. So I think we've pressed a bit of a reset and we're going to wait to re enter this, you know, consumerist environment of having to buy the next thing every five seconds, probably not. And so I think it's always important. And going back to my point about disposable income, when you've got it, save it, you know, make sure you've got some money behind you. I think it allows you to have a different journey. I think if you've got like a house, if you've got solid foundations, you can build a house, if they're not solid that you can't. So in your early years, if you can get some savings behind you, it might allow you to take a different career path, you might not need to earn money every month, you might want to go more sort of risk self employed, who knows, that allows you to take a different journey one that perhaps you may even enjoy more. So try and get to sort of base camp as soon as you can. If you climbing that mountain, maybe that's the analogy. Get there, get some cash behind you. And then that'll allow you to make choices that are truly yours and not been defined by others in your life

Jason Butler 39:06
you know, that's a good point. I mean Be true to yourself and don't worry about what other people are doing. But in terms of thinking about, you know, financial planning and the power of whether it be getting a mentor or coach financial advisor

there's no harm is there in educating yourself before you need to take that advice and and just wondered if there are any specific books or things that need to go to things that you've you know, would you be on your desert island with that kind of do you think are essential things to teach people some principles? Is there a film to watch or is there a book that really helps people understand the kind of just the fundamentals of money and the role of it in life?

Neil Moles 39:49
Yeah, definitely don't watch wolf of Wallstreet especially especially either Oh, no idea.

Jason Butler 39:56
Yeah, very entertaining. They won't help you in money.

Neil Moles 39:59
It didn't happen the promise here. And I think, you know, when it comes to, to people being educated, I think, unfortunately, people that need advice, don't have any money, if that makes sense. Yeah, you need to learn how to save before you start saving, you know, you need to learn how to drive the car before you buy the car. And so I think this is where the industry lets the world down at the moment, it's, you know, something that we have to come together as an industry now is to how we educate that set of people and make sure that they have all the building blocks in place. Do I think there's a great book out there a great film? Not particularly because I think unfortunately, every one that I've read is around investment management, or how to invest money or how to even get rich quick. I think what we need is just a basic set of education principles, and to try and build people's knowledge and simplify. Thank you for We can do that people can then go on their own journey. At the moment, the way that financial services works, it's it's controlled, controlled by the the big, big industries out there, the big banks out there that want you to go on their journey. And I think financial independence is one of the most important things that we don't have as individuals in the country. And education is the one thing you can give someone that you can never take away. I think if we as an industry as a country can give that as parents to our children. You know, I think that's really important.

Jason Butler 41:33
It's very good point. Yeah, good. Well, look, no, it's been great talking to you. I appreciate you're a very busy guy. But if people want to check out your company, whether it's to work for your firm, or find out about the services for themselves, or someone else, what's the website? So the website is www dot, the progeny group.com. And they can get access to the tax, the legal and the financial planning services through that. Yeah.

Neil Moles 41:57
Absolutely. Yeah. There's a lot of information on As well as other 400 blogs on the website. Yeah. And again, surrounding financial education. Yeah. So yeah, really a really good resource for people. And you know, just to get on there and learn. Yeah.

Jason Butler 42:11
And if people want for new consumers are thinking about sort of just having an initial chat, you do those via sort of zoom and stuff to, you know, charge just to sort of scope out if they, they would get value from your services. Is that is that still available these days? Is that something you provide?

Neil Moles 42:25
Yeah, absolutely. And it's become easier and easier now, isn't it? We just jump on a phone call zoom call now, even though it could be teams are web video? Yeah, yeah. In the zoom wave appearing. And so absolutely, and we're more than happy to talk to people, and whether that be potential clients and people who have who have questions. But you know, also happy Jason to talk to people who potentially want to enter financial services as a career. And you know, it doesn't matter how old they are, if they're 1314 years old, if they want to reach out to us and have a chat about what the experience is like. We're happy to do that as well.

Jason Butler 42:59
You guys Yeah, yeah, you're playing the long game, I guess. Yeah. Well, Neil miles CEO of progeny group, very progressive company, check them out. They're doing a lot of good stuff very open investing in their people. Neil's going places just starting out, right? You you've just opened the box of the game, right? And there's still more to go. So I'm gonna be watching you with with great interest. Are you doing great things. Thank you very much for being on the show today. Appreciate your time.

Neil Moles 43:24
Thank you, Jason, thank you for the opportunity.

Jason Butler 43:30
Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me, Jason Butler. If you'd like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai